Discussion:
Anyone tried any biofeedback devices? - (preferrably reasonably priced ones!)
(too old to reply)
ship
2009-08-04 10:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi

Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?

I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).

Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).

With thanks


Ship
Shiperton Henethe

P.S.
I am also interest, but only *vaguely* interested, in cueing devices
(e.g. with flashing
lights and pulsing sounds in different ears etc.), because although
they may get you into Alpha brain rhythm quite fast, I suspect
that one might become dependent on them (i.e. unable to meditate
properly without them!). Also they do seem to be extremely 'unnatural'
whereas pavlovian cues such as burning incense sticks much less so.
But if you have strong views about such devices I'd like to hear them
too.
Peter B.
2009-08-05 04:43:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
With thanks
Ship
Shiperton Henethe
P.S.
I am also interest, but only *vaguely* interested, in cueing devices
(e.g. with flashing
lights and pulsing sounds in different ears etc.), because although
they may get you into Alpha brain rhythm quite fast, I suspect
that one might become dependent on them (i.e. unable to meditate
properly without them!). Also they do seem to be extremely 'unnatural'
whereas pavlovian cues such as burning incense sticks much less so.
But if you have strong views about such devices I'd like to hear them
too.
What is the point of this? What do you hope to achieve?

This is a poor attempt at escaping or dealing with reality.
John
2009-08-05 10:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter B.
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
With thanks
Ship
ShipertonHenethe
P.S.
I am also interest, but only *vaguely* interested, in cueing devices
(e.g. with flashing
lights and pulsing sounds in different ears etc.), because although
they may get you into Alpha brain rhythm quite fast, I suspect
that one might become dependent on them (i.e. unable to meditate
properly without them!). Also they do seem to be extremely 'unnatural'
whereas pavlovian cues such as burning incense sticks much less so.
But if you have strong views about such devices I'd like to hear them
too.
What is the point of this? What do you hope to achieve?
I went to a long talk a couple of years ago by a scientist who had
discovered
that people who had done a LOT of meditation ('enlightened masters"
etc)
had very differenet brain waves from people who had not done much
meditaion.
(In fact they were also using much more of their brains to meditate
than the
rest of us do.)

His working thesis - as yet unproven - was that a meditator could save
a LOT of
time (not to mention money and/or pain) by getting some sort feedback
about what
they were actually doing with their brains.
i.e. When they were getting closer to certain desired patterns of
frequency distribution,
they would:
a) feel encouraged and
b) could with practice learn to get there much faster than with
traditional methods
c) could learn to meditate much more deeply than before.
Post by Peter B.
This is a poor attempt at escaping or dealing with reality.
How much research have you actually done on feedback devices?
Or are you biased against 'progress' and/or the use technology to
improve brain function?


Ship
Shiperton Henethe
Peter B.
2009-08-06 00:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter B.
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
With thanks
Ship
ShipertonHenethe
P.S.
I am also interest, but only *vaguely* interested, in cueing devices
(e.g. with flashing
lights and pulsing sounds in different ears etc.), because although
they may get you into Alpha brain rhythm quite fast, I suspect
that one might become dependent on them (i.e. unable to meditate
properly without them!). Also they do seem to be extremely
'unnatural'
whereas pavlovian cues such as burning incense sticks much less so.
But if you have strong views about such devices I'd like to hear them
too.
What is the point of this? What do you hope to achieve?
I went to a long talk a couple of years ago by a scientist who had
discovered
that people who had done a LOT of meditation ('enlightened masters"
etc)
had very differenet brain waves from people who had not done much
meditaion.
(In fact they were also using much more of their brains to meditate
than the
rest of us do.)

His working thesis - as yet unproven - was that a meditator could save
a LOT of
time (not to mention money and/or pain) by getting some sort feedback
about what
they were actually doing with their brains.
i.e. When they were getting closer to certain desired patterns of
frequency distribution,
they would:
a) feel encouraged and
b) could with practice learn to get there much faster than with
traditional methods
c) could learn to meditate much more deeply than before.
========================================
Did you notice that none of this helps in daily living?
Post by Peter B.
This is a poor attempt at escaping or dealing with reality.
How much research have you actually done on feedback devices?
Or are you biased against 'progress' and/or the use technology to
improve brain function?
============================================
Why would I waste my time with this as there is no benefit to the user
or their family,

So what if my brain patterns wire different, smoother? We all are
different, and should be respected as so. Your brain is a sine wave,
mine is flat, whats the difference.

Where is the progress? You want to believe in hocus pocus be my guest.
You want to blow your monies on voo doo hoo doo, fine, but where is any
benefit?

Ship
Shiperton Henethe
t
2009-08-06 12:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Peter B.
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
With thanks
Ship
ShipertonHenethe
P.S.
I am also interest, but only *vaguely* interested, in cueing devices
(e.g. with flashing
lights and pulsing sounds in different ears etc.), because although
they may get you into Alpha brain rhythm quite fast, I suspect
that one might become dependent on them (i.e. unable to meditate
properly without them!). Also they do seem to be extremely 'unnatural'
whereas pavlovian cues such as burning incense sticks much less so.
But if you have strong views about such devices I'd like to hear them
too.
What is the point of this? What do you hope to achieve?
I went to a long talk a couple of years ago by a scientist who had
discovered
that people who had done a LOT of meditation ('enlightened masters"
etc)
had very differenet brain waves from people who had not done much
meditaion.
(In fact they were also using much more of their brains to meditate
than the
rest of us do.)
His working thesis - as yet unproven - was that a meditator could save
a LOT of
time (not to mention money and/or pain) by getting some sort feedback
about what
they were actually doing with their brains.
i.e. When they were getting closer to certain desired patterns of
frequency distribution,
a) feel encouraged and
b) could with practice learn to get there much faster than with
traditional methods
c) could learn to meditate much more deeply than before.
========================================
Did you notice that none of this helps in daily living?
Post by Peter B.
This is a poor attempt at escaping or dealing with reality.
How much research have you actually done on feedback devices?
Or are you biased against 'progress' and/or the use technology to
improve brain function?
============================================
Why would I waste my time with this as there is no benefit to the user or
their family,
So what if my brain patterns wire different, smoother? We all are
different, and should be respected as so. Your brain is a sine wave, mine
is flat, whats the difference.
Where is the progress? You want to believe in hocus pocus be my guest. You
want to blow your monies on voo doo hoo doo, fine, but where is any
benefit?
Ship
Shiperton Henethe
One obvious benifit would be to have more real hands on knowledge and
experice than you. That would mean that the person trying it would be
smarter than you. That would mean that you make decisions based on nothing
better than your own anal feelings. If you wish to live your life
uneducated, uninlightened, uninformed go for it. The rest of the world can
wave bye bye to you as the train leaves you in the station.
Peter B.
2009-08-07 02:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by t
One obvious benifit would be to have more real hands on knowledge and
experice than you. That would mean that the person trying it would be
smarter than you. That would mean that you make decisions based on
nothing better than your own anal feelings. If you wish to live your
life uneducated, uninlightened, uninformed go for it. The rest of the
world can wave bye bye to you as the train leaves you in the station.
You, my friend, are far more ignorant then you let on. I won't even try
explaining to you your lack of understanding and reading comprehension.
Your personal feelings are infringing on your logic. Now say after
me..................

Ommmmmmmmmmmm. Ooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
t
2009-08-07 12:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter B.
Post by t
One obvious benifit would be to have more real hands on knowledge and
experice than you. That would mean that the person trying it would be
smarter than you. That would mean that you make decisions based on
nothing better than your own anal feelings. If you wish to live your life
uneducated, uninlightened, uninformed go for it. The rest of the world
can wave bye bye to you as the train leaves you in the station.
You, my friend, are far more ignorant then you let on. I won't even try
explaining to you your lack of understanding and reading comprehension.
Your personal feelings are infringing on your logic. Now say after
me..................
Ommmmmmmmmmmm. Ooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Peter, I know far less than I would like. How bout you?
Are there two "Peters" here? sometimes I agree with your posts and sometimes
it seem an evil twin comes here.
About my personal feelings, it's true they do filter my logic from time to
time. t
Peter B.
2009-08-08 05:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter B.
Post by t
One obvious benifit would be to have more real hands on knowledge
and experice than you. That would mean that the person trying it
would be smarter than you. That would mean that you make decisions
based on nothing better than your own anal feelings. If you wish to
live your life uneducated, uninlightened, uninformed go for it. The
rest of the world can wave bye bye to you as the train leaves you in
the station.
You, my friend, are far more ignorant then you let on. I won't even
try explaining to you your lack of understanding and reading
comprehension. Your personal feelings are infringing on your logic.
Now say after me..................
Ommmmmmmmmmmm. Ooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Peter, I know far less than I would like. How bout you? Are there two
"Peters" here? sometimes I agree with your posts and sometimes it seem
an evil twin comes here. About my personal feelings, it's true they do
filter my logic from time to time. t
Intelligent people realize what they don't know. Ignorants attempt to
cover that up.

I am one. No one should agree totally, if they did something is terribly
wrong with one or both people.

John
2009-08-07 11:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Peter B.
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
With thanks
Ship
ShipertonHenethe
P.S.
I am also interest, but only *vaguely* interested, in cueing devices
(e.g. with flashing
lights and pulsing sounds in different ears etc.), because although
they may get you into Alpha brain rhythm quite fast, I suspect
that one might become dependent on them (i.e. unable to meditate
properly without them!). Also they do seem to be extremely 'unnatural'
whereas pavlovian cues such as burning incense sticks much less so.
But if you have strong views about such devices I'd like to hear them
too.
What is the point of this? What do you hope to achieve?
I went to a long talk a couple of years ago by a scientist who had
discovered
that people who had done a LOT of meditation ('enlightened masters"
etc)
had very differenet brain waves from people who had not done much
meditaion.
(In fact they were also using much more of their brains to meditate
than the
rest of us do.)
His working thesis - as yet unproven - was that a meditator could save
a LOT of
time (not to mention money and/or pain) by getting some sort feedback
about what
they were actually doing with their brains.
i.e. When they were getting closer to certain desired patterns of
frequency distribution,
a) feel encouraged and
b) could with practice learn to get there much faster than with
traditional methods
c) could learn to meditate much more deeply than before.
========================================
Did you notice that none of this helps in daily living?
Post by Peter B.
This is a poor attempt at escaping or dealing with reality.
How much research have you actually done on feedback devices?
Or are you biased against 'progress' and/or the use technology to
improve brain function?
============================================
Why would I waste my time with this as there is no benefit to the user or
their family,
So what if my brain patterns wire different, smoother? We all are
different, and should be respected as so. Your brain is a sine wave, mine
is flat, whats the difference.
Where is the progress? You want to believe in hocus pocus be my guest. You
want to blow your monies on voo doo hoo doo, fine, but where is any
benefit?
Ship
ShipertonHenethe
 One obvious benifit would be to have more real hands on knowledge and
experice than you. That would mean that the person trying it would be
smarter than you. That would mean that you make decisions based on nothing
better than your own anal feelings. If you wish to live your life
uneducated, uninlightened, uninformed go for it. The rest of the world can
wave bye bye to you as the train leaves you in the station.- Hide quoted text -
Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about.

Having experience of something does not mean you are more or less
intelligent
than anyone else who happens not to have had that experience.

The reason I am asking questions here demonstrates my humility in as
much as
I am admitting a complete lack of experience in this sector.

If I was arrogant enough to think that I had all the answers I would
not be asking
questions.

As regards to making decisions based on feelings, well yes and no.
What I am looking for is input from other people who HAVE had the
experience
of the sort of technology that I am talking about.

I believe we are born into the age we are born into for a reason.
Some interesting technology now exists that did not exist in previous
generations.

That does NOT mean that we MUST try all the new things - far from it -
but simply
that some of the things which exist may serve to help us. And we need
to choose carefully which is which. Each of us have our own paths to
take through life.

If I look back through the history of mediation, it is clear that
great benefit has
been obtained my many people but that it took them a LOT of time and
energy
and discipline and basically hard work to get there. I am not afraid
of hard work, but
(this) life is short. And time is short.

If new tools exist that might speed this process up, that do not seem
to damage
our health then my personal choice is to try some of these things out
- but to do
so in a responsible, intelligent manner.

I see it as part of the reason as to why I was born now.


Ship
Shiperton Henethe
ecky
2009-08-06 06:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
IMO, the main criterion whether a meditation technique or device (FTM)
is effective - at least from the yogic POV - is the fourth praaNaayaama
mentioned in MaharSi Patañjali's Yoga-suutras (II 51):

baahyaabhyantara-viSayaakSepii caturthaH (sc. praaNaayaamaH)

Taimni's translation:

That /praaNaayaama/ which goes beyond the sphere of internal and external
is the fourth (variety).

In his comment on that suutra, Bhojadeva uses the expression "stambharuupo
gativicchedaH", which prolly means something *like* slowing down of
breathing up to stopping altogether.

The result of that fourth praaNaayaama seems to be mentioned in II 52 and
53:

tataH kSiiyate prakaashaavaraNam (From that is dissolved the covering of
light)

dhaaraNaasu ca yogyataa manasaH (And the fitness of the mind for
concentration [dhaaraNaa, which is the first "component" of /saMyama/ -
eki])
Peter B.
2009-08-06 06:40:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by ecky
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
IMO, the main criterion whether a meditation technique or device (FTM)
is effective - at least from the yogic POV - is the fourth
praaNaayaama
baahyaabhyantara-viSayaakSepii caturthaH (sc. praaNaayaamaH)
That /praaNaayaama/ which goes beyond the sphere of internal and external
is the fourth (variety).
In his comment on that suutra, Bhojadeva uses the expression
"stambharuupo
gativicchedaH", which prolly means something *like* slowing down of
breathing up to stopping altogether.
The result of that fourth praaNaayaama seems to be mentioned in II 52 and
tataH kSiiyate prakaashaavaraNam (From that is dissolved the covering of
light)
dhaaraNaasu ca yogyataa manasaH (And the fitness of the mind for
concentration [dhaaraNaa, which is the first "component" of
/saMyama/ -
eki])
Let me get this straight,......
So your saying that all those trolls and little kids who go Nyaa Nyaa
Nyaa Nanny booboo are actually doing Yogi speak?
t
2009-08-06 12:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter B.
Post by ecky
Post by ship
Hi
Have any of you tried any "biofeedback" devices for meditation?
I am mainly looking for a device to tell me how well I am doing (i.e.
deeply I am meditating).
Budget: ideally no more than GBP 50 to 100 (??).
IMO, the main criterion whether a meditation technique or device (FTM)
is effective - at least from the yogic POV - is the fourth praaNaayaama
baahyaabhyantara-viSayaakSepii caturthaH (sc. praaNaayaamaH)
That /praaNaayaama/ which goes beyond the sphere of internal and external
is the fourth (variety).
In his comment on that suutra, Bhojadeva uses the expression
"stambharuupo
gativicchedaH", which prolly means something *like* slowing down of
breathing up to stopping altogether.
The result of that fourth praaNaayaama seems to be mentioned in II 52 and
tataH kSiiyate prakaashaavaraNam (From that is dissolved the covering of
light)
dhaaraNaasu ca yogyataa manasaH (And the fitness of the mind for
concentration [dhaaraNaa, which is the first "component" of /saMyama/ -
eki])
Let me get this straight,......
So your saying that all those trolls and little kids who go Nyaa Nyaa Nyaa
Nanny booboo are actually doing Yogi speak?
Don't quit your day job.
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