Discussion:
Give up the striving!
(too old to reply)
r***@rwilliams.us
2009-05-06 17:37:25 UTC
Permalink
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.

You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.

There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.

Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.

Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.

The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.

According to A.J. Bahm:

"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.

But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.

The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).

Work cited:

'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Invisible Lurker
2009-05-06 17:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurker
https://twitter.com/ansamanley
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-06 18:00:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia. I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it. Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-06 18:06:09 UTC
Permalink
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.

It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-06 18:15:11 UTC
Permalink
On May 7, 2:06 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
It can me a mere matter of moving on.  The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind.  Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting.  The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there.  My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
What do you do with an elephant? In the end I find the elephant just
ceases to be created, nothing is done to it. Do I look like a
murderer? ;)
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-06 18:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.

Lee Rudolph
Wilson
2009-05-06 23:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.

Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
zenworm
2009-05-07 04:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino

ZN
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-07 04:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino

ZN

==========================

the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-07 09:35:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-07 20:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.
zenworm
2009-05-07 23:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
feels like getting pinched
<*snort!*>

ZN
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 02:21:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
feels like getting pinched
<*snort!*>

ZN

======================

the kids in the cheap seats claim
that someone has stolen your seat
zenworm
2009-05-08 06:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
feels like getting pinched
<*snort!*>
ZN
======================
the kids in the cheap seats claim
that someone has stolen your seat- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
woody allen?

ZN
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 07:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
feels like getting pinched
<*snort!*>
ZN
======================
the kids in the cheap seats claim
that someone has stolen your seat- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
woody allen?

ZN

=======================

i think it's fatty arbuckle
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 09:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by zenworm
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
feels like getting pinched
<*snort!*>
ZN
======================
the kids in the cheap seats claim
that someone has stolen your seat- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
woody allen?
ZN
=======================
i think it's fatty arbuckle
crazy imaginary objects all the way...down
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
feels like getting pinched
<*snort!*>
ZN
*just wandering by*

;)
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 03:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.
they're probably drugged and burnt out by the owners, so why not give
em one for the camera.
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 04:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.
they're probably drugged and burnt out by the owners, so why not give
em one for the camera.

===================

rhino photo ops are sooooooo
last millenium
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
ZN
==========================
the rhino that can be pinched is
not the real rhino
how hard can it be
go ahead. pinch a rhino.
let us know how that works
out for you.
they're probably drugged and burnt out by the owners, so why not give
em one for the camera.
===================
rhino photo ops are sooooooo
last millenium
at the zoo safari wonderland i took photos of my feet to show my
boredom... similarly burned out.
Invisible Lurker
2009-05-07 04:50:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
You didn't know? To "pinch the rhino" is a sexual
act requiring a man, a woman, a half a dozen
greased kittens, and a large hungry doberman.
--
Invisible Lurker
https://twitter.com/ansamanley
zenworm
2009-05-07 06:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by zenworm
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
to pinch the rhino it is wise to be a rhino
You didn't know? To "pinch the rhino" is a sexual
act requiring a man, a woman, a half a dozen
greased kittens, and a large hungry doberman.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not to worry
i always bring lots of lampreys and at least one octopus
ZN
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-07 09:37:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
we could cross two animals? :)
DT
2009-05-07 13:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
we could cross two animals? :)
Man, from what I've heard, you don't want to cross a rhino.

DT
miu2r2na
2009-05-07 19:09:15 UTC
Permalink
My girlfriend has a saying: Better a cross draft than an angry elephant.....
Post by DT
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
we could cross two animals? :)
Man, from what I've heard, you don't want to cross a rhino.
DT
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:16:41 UTC
Permalink
My girlfriend just tells me to keep the animals out of it.
Post by miu2r2na
My girlfriend has a saying: Better a cross draft than an angry elephant.....
Post by DT
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Wilson
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Lee Rudolph
I read that the first time as pinch the rhino.
Not that I'm making any value judgments or anything ...
--
Wilson
we could cross two animals? :)
Man, from what I've heard, you don't want to cross a rhino.
DT
Pete
2009-05-07 04:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
What do you do with an elephant?
Walk him, and pitch to the rhino.
Definitely. More double plays that way.
Benjamin
2009-05-06 18:14:53 UTC
Permalink
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia. I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it. Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-06 18:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the living-room--
mind-blowing!

Lee Rudolph
DT
2009-05-06 21:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the living-room--
mind-blowing!
Lee Rudolph
Hell, I was havin' trouble just thinking about Sandy and an elephant...

DT
Invisible Lurker
2009-05-06 22:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by DT
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box
a more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts
to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not
getting rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just
don't go there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and
need for new mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the
living-room-- mind-blowing!
Lee Rudolph
Hell, I was havin' trouble just thinking about Sandy and an
elephant...
It is like a fricking fire hose!
--
Invisible Lurker
https://twitter.com/ansamanley
DT
2009-05-07 13:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by DT
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box
a more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts
to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not
getting rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just
don't go there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and
need for new mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the
living-room-- mind-blowing!
Lee Rudolph
Hell, I was havin' trouble just thinking about Sandy and an
elephant...
It is like a fricking fire hose!
ObBuddhism: AND it's retractable!

DT
Invisible Lurker
2009-05-06 22:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not
getting rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just
don't go there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and
need for new mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the living-room--
mind-blowing!
and MESSY..."What is grey and comes in quarts?"
--
Invisible Lurker
https://twitter.com/ansamanley
Appledog
2009-05-07 00:50:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on.  The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind.  Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting.  The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there.  My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the living-room--
mind-blowing!
Lee Rudolph
You know, the simple, unadultered mental immmmage of an appledog can
be very much more pleasing than an elephant. And it only takes one
hand to grope it, if such a thing is what you enjoy doing.

-
Don Shepherd
2009-05-07 05:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Benjamin
Post by the six six six shrinking man
It can me a mere matter of moving on. The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind. Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting. The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there. My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
And thinking of six blind men groping an elephant in the living-room--
mind-blowing!
Lee Rudolph
It was seven blind men. The seventh thought the elephant was like a bowl
of warm pudding.

Don
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-07 09:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benjamin
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
It can me a mere matter of moving on.  The instruction can act as a
hook though, that dwelling on is making it a stronger object in the
mind.  Also a imagination barrier can be made, a way of putting it
away and resisting.  The visualization of a box might make the box a
more powerful barrier image than the elephant and focus shifts to it.
It's a matter of non accessing the elephant to begin with, not getting
rid of it but before the movement toward it arises just don't go
there.  My lethargic nature and my boredom threshold and need for new
mind objects might explain some of the detachment.
On the other hand thinking of an elephant can be very pleasing.
in the context of the rest of this thread that might take that back
now.
Invisible Lurker
2009-05-06 18:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia. I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it. Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
Careful where you drop the elephant.

Interestingly enough, during the US Civil War, the
phrase "I have seen the Elephant" was used to describe
having gone into a battle. One correspondent said,

"I have seen the elephant and I never want to
see it no more."
--
Invisible Lurker
https://twitter.com/ansamanley
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
Careful where you drop the elephant.
Interestingly enough, during the US Civil War, the
phrase "I have seen the Elephant" was used to describe
having gone into a battle. One correspondent said,
"I have seen the elephant and I never want to
see it no more."
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
how did th elephant reduce to sex and war anyway? :)

i think what you say is true, a world at war is not something i want
to live in without a really fine house
Appledog
2009-05-07 00:49:09 UTC
Permalink
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
Turn off the projector and the whole room goes dark.

Is there, then, a projector? I can't see it.

So to say there is no projector, or that there is a projector, both
statements are incorrect. We are in a state where to ask the question
itself is the problem. On one level, it can't be answered. On another
level we are in a state not where there is a projector or no
projector, but that the presence or absence of a projector is simply
no longer our main concern.

So - big problem time. Time for a big problem. If you've really turned
it off, and "can't see it" anymore, how do you turn it back on?

-
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-07 01:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Appledog
Turn off the projector and the whole room goes dark.
Is there, then, a projector? I can't see it.
For quite some time after it's turned off, you'll be able to feel
its warmth--those buggers get *hot*. So hot that, very possibly,
you'd also be able to smell your way to it. So hot, too, that
it may well have a circuit that runs a cooling fan for a while
after the light goes out: you'll be able to hear that, and feel
the air moving. And as it cools, even without a fan, in an
otherwise quiet room you'll hear the clinks and pings of metal
rearranging itself.
Post by Appledog
So to say there is no projector, or that there is a projector, both
statements are incorrect. We are in a state where to ask the question
itself is the problem. On one level, it can't be answered. On another
level we are in a state not where there is a projector or no
projector, but that the presence or absence of a projector is simply
no longer our main concern.
So - big problem time. Time for a big problem. If you've really turned
it off, and "can't see it" anymore, how do you turn it back on?
Begin by being open to more of the senses.

Lee Rudolph (but keep an eye out for Stickyhair)
DT
2009-05-07 13:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Appledog
Turn off the projector and the whole room goes dark.
Is there, then, a projector? I can't see it.
For quite some time after it's turned off, you'll be able to feel
its warmth--those buggers get *hot*.
Ohhhhh, *now* who's projecting?

DT
zenworm
2009-05-07 04:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
Turn off the projector and the whole room goes dark.
Is there, then, a projector? I can't see it.
So to say there is no projector, or that there is a projector, both
statements are incorrect. We are in a state where to ask the question
itself is the problem. On one level, it can't be answered. On another
level we are in a state not where there is a projector or no
projector, but that the presence or absence of a projector is simply
no longer our main concern.
So - big problem time. Time for a big problem. If you've really turned
it off, and "can't see it" anymore, how do you turn it back on?
-- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
attention back to Moment

ZN
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by zenworm
Post by the six six six shrinking man
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
Turn off the projector and the whole room goes dark.
Is there, then, a projector? I can't see it.
So to say there is no projector, or that there is a projector, both
statements are incorrect. We are in a state where to ask the question
itself is the problem. On one level, it can't be answered. On another
level we are in a state not where there is a projector or no
projector, but that the presence or absence of a projector is simply
no longer our main concern.
So - big problem time. Time for a big problem. If you've really turned
it off, and "can't see it" anymore, how do you turn it back on?
-- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
attention back to Moment
ZN
attention to the dualistic mind separating the Moment from the
dualistic mind.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:12:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
On May 7, 2:00 am, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
I can drop an elephant quite easy, it's a form of intentional
amnesia.  I can even retain consciousness that there was something I
dropped but not allow myself to access it.  Might be artificiality,
but it seems honest.
Turn off the projector and the whole room goes dark.
Is there, then, a projector? I can't see it.
So to say there is no projector, or that there is a projector, both
statements are incorrect. We are in a state where to ask the question
itself is the problem. On one level, it can't be answered. On another
level we are in a state not where there is a projector or no
projector, but that the presence or absence of a projector is simply
no longer our main concern.
So - big problem time. Time for a big problem. If you've really turned
it off, and "can't see it" anymore, how do you turn it back on?
-
residual urges?
zenworm
2009-05-06 22:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Invisible Lurker
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an enlightened state.
But striving, like craving, is very difficult to overcome. The
very moment you desire to be enlightened, you are off the
program.
You should not have any thought about gaining a state of
enlightenment. All you need to do is sit and be aware.
That's what real meditation is - just sitting and being aware
of being aware. There's no goal, no steps on The Way -
there is just the sitting without the striving.
There is a striving to stay alive, a striving for material things,
and a striving to stay competitive; there is even a very
subtle 'greed for views' that must be overcome.
Because if you desire to be enlightened and you strive for
it, you will be creating a desire or craving. Striving is a
desire which must be rooted out. This is the fundamental
teaching of the Buddha, to root out the craving and the
desire.
Desire for what will not be attained ends in frustration
which is a form of suffering. How to avoid suffering? You
must adopt the 'Middle Way'. And what is the Middle
Way? The Middle Way is the avoidance of extremes.
How to avoid extremes? Do not extremely avoid
extremes.
The Middle Way, simply stated is: desire not more
enlightenment than you are going to get.
"The Middle Way, believing neither that one will attain
more certainty than he will attain, nor that he will attain
less certainty than he will attain, again needs to be
sought.
But again, too avid seeking for the Middle Way
embodies a more subtle greed which must be rooted
out by more subtle efforts, without pursuing such
uprooting greedily, but by means of a still more subtle
Middle Way.
The problem of stopping anguish is sufficiently difficult,
complex, and attention-demanding that anyone who
pursues it seriously will have little time left over for
indulging unhappily in metaphysical pursuits" (20-23).
'Philosophy of the Buddha'
by Archie J. Bahm
Harper, 1959
Very simple. Sit quietly and never think of elephants.
--
Invisible Lurkerhttps://twitter.com/ansamanley
sit

ZN
r***@rwilliams.us
2009-05-07 15:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an
enlightened state...
You're still mistaking the pointing finger for the
moon. When you stop all your striving and your
incessant word games, you can see the moon
in a dewdrop.

In Dogen's Zen practice, the primary realization
is the *oneness* of practice-enlightenment. The
practice of zazen and the experience of
enlightenment are one and the same - there is
no difference - no duality.

The practice of 'just sitting' is non-different
from the enlightenment - there is no gap
between your practice and your enlightenment.
Just sitting IS enlightenment. Zazen is not
step-by-step process - it is all-at-once or
nothing at all. There are no steps along the
way.

Dogen Kigen:

Fifty-four years lighting up the sky.
A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
Hah!
Entire body looks for nothing.
Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs.

Excert:

"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."

Work cited:

'Dogen Kigen--Mystical Realist'
by Hee-Jin Kim
Wisdom Publications, 2004
Ned Ludd
2009-05-07 17:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).

Ned
KittyP
2009-05-07 18:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
Ned
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all the
conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive Meditation
Contest winners in absfg.

Kitty
Love
2009-05-07 18:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
Ned
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all the
conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive Meditation
Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
--
Love
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-07 19:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
Ned
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all the
conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive Meditation
Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.

Lee Rudolph
Ned Ludd
2009-05-07 20:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.

Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.

Ned
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-07 20:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).

However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?

Lee Rudolph
Love
2009-05-07 20:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Ned doesn't do two things: pun and use smilies.

No doubt the desire to use smilies disappears with the
attainment of the highest level of insight too.

Of course, I thought Ned didn't sit, either, but I saw
it for myself on a shist...
--
Love
Ned Ludd
2009-05-08 00:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
"Once we turn our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest to clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
Yeah, Blake said something like that, "road of excess" and
"palace of wisdom". Beautiful stuff. Crazy as a shit-house
rat.
Post by Lee Rudolph
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life;...
Without desire you're dead. He might pretend to not desire to
breathe, but we'll hold his nose and cover his mouth, and see
how long it takes him to push our hands away.
Post by Lee Rudolph
... such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
Post by Lee Rudolph
Ned doesn't do two things: pun and use smilies.
No doubt the desire to use smilies disappears with the
attainment of the highest level of insight too.
Of course, I thought Ned didn't sit, either, but I saw
it for myself on a shist...
--
Love
Ah, but in the seen is only the unseen; and in the unseen
only the seen.

The schist... the schist... only the schist lasts.

Ned
Love
2009-05-08 04:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
"Once we turn our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest to clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
Yeah, Blake said something like that, "road of excess" and
"palace of wisdom". Beautiful stuff. Crazy as a shit-house
rat.
Post by Lee Rudolph
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life;...
Without desire you're dead. He might pretend to not desire to
breathe, but we'll hold his nose and cover his mouth, and see
how long it takes him to push our hands away.
Post by Lee Rudolph
... such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
We all live without a self, and will is only as free as that
which conditions it.
--
Love

May Shai-Hulud clear the path before you.
Ned Ludd
2009-05-08 17:57:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Love
Post by Ned Ludd
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
We all live without a self, and will is only as free as that
which conditions it.
--
Love
Self must be respected as much as any other dharma. Honorable
teacup. Honorable chair. Honorable table. Honorable zafu.
Honorable dog turd. Honorable self.

Ned
Don Shepherd
2009-05-08 19:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Love
Post by Ned Ludd
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
We all live without a self, and will is only as free as that
which conditions it.
--
Love
Self must be respected as much as any other dharma. Honorable
teacup. Honorable chair. Honorable table. Honorable zafu.
Honorable dog turd. Honorable self.
Ned
You forgot Honorable discharge.

Don
Love
2009-05-08 23:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Love
Post by Ned Ludd
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
We all live without a self, and will is only as free as that
which conditions it.
--
Love
Self must be respected as much as any other dharma. Honorable
teacup. Honorable chair. Honorable table. Honorable zafu.
Honorable dog turd. Honorable self.
So many things without own-existence, all wondrous.

But is self more like turd of dog or more like turd of bronze dog?
--
Love

May Shai-Hulud clear the path before you.
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-09 00:53:19 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by Love
Post by Ned Ludd
Self must be respected as much as any other dharma. Honorable
teacup. Honorable chair. Honorable table. Honorable zafu.
Honorable dog turd. Honorable self.
So many things without own-existence, all wondrous.
But is self more like turd of dog or more like turd of bronze dog?
O Body, O Mind:
dogshit on a baby shoe,
preserved by bronze Self.

Lee Rudolph
Ned Ludd
2009-05-09 01:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Love
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Love
Post by Ned Ludd
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
We all live without a self, and will is only as free as that
which conditions it.
--
Love
Self must be respected as much as any other dharma. Honorable
teacup. Honorable chair. Honorable table. Honorable zafu.
Honorable dog turd. Honorable self.
So many things without own-existence, all wondrous.
But is self more like turd of dog or more like turd of bronze dog?
Oh schist, schist, only the schist survives!

Self is a teacup. Self is a chair. Self is a table. Self
is a zafu. Self is a dog turd.

The turd of bronze dog is unique, miraculous, transcendental
and truly unborn and undead.

Ned

Allen Barker
2009-05-08 07:15:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
"Once we turn our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest to clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
Yeah, Blake said something like that, "road of excess" and
"palace of wisdom". Beautiful stuff. Crazy as a shit-house
rat.
Post by Lee Rudolph
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life;...
Without desire you're dead. He might pretend to not desire to
breathe, but we'll hold his nose and cover his mouth, and see
how long it takes him to push our hands away.
Without gravity, we're dead. Explosive decompression, and
all that. Therefore, before Newton there was no life.

You're the one imposing the desire concept onto your
hypothetical torture victim. How Spanish Inquisition of
you.
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
... such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove". And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self. "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts. OK. But. Well. Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
Post by Lee Rudolph
Ned doesn't do two things: pun and use smilies.
No doubt the desire to use smilies disappears with the
attainment of the highest level of insight too.
Of course, I thought Ned didn't sit, either, but I saw
it for myself on a shist...
--
Love
Ah, but in the seen is only the unseen; and in the unseen
only the seen.
The schist... the schist... only the schist lasts.
Ned
zenworm
2009-05-08 08:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
"Once we turn our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
 The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
 Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest to clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
 Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
 Yeah, Blake said something like that, "road of excess" and
"palace of wisdom".  Beautiful stuff.  Crazy as a shit-house
rat.
Post by Lee Rudolph
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life;...
 Without desire you're dead.  He might pretend to not desire to
breathe, but we'll hold his nose and cover his mouth, and see
how long it takes him to push our hands away.
Without gravity, we're dead.  Explosive decompression, and
all that.  Therefore, before Newton there was no life.
You're the one imposing the desire concept onto your
hypothetical torture victim.  How Spanish Inquisition of
you.
Post by Lee Rudolph
... such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do.  Will such a one never pun?  Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
 First of all, I'm reading a book called "What We Believe But
Cannot Prove".  And one of the recent entries is by Susan Blackmore
(touted recently by Fu), who claims she lives without free will or a
self.  "Decisions just happen with no sense of anyone making them",
she asserts.  OK.  But.  Well.  Who exactly are you pulling the
wool over the eyes of?
Post by Lee Rudolph
Ned doesn't do two things: pun and use smilies.
No doubt the desire to use smilies disappears with the
attainment of the highest level of insight too.
Of course, I thought Ned didn't sit, either, but I saw
it for myself on a shist...
--
Love
 Ah, but in the seen is only the unseen; and in the unseen
only the seen.
 The schist... the schist... only the schist lasts.
Ned- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
maybe this desire exploration/"inquisition" could be piggybacked
onto the waterboarding politician thingy

ZN
- Show quoted text -
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-07 21:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 03:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
 The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
 Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
 Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do.  Will such a one never pun?  Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.

on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 04:37:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.

on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)

=============================

does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :)  i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha?  she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there".  am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:47:16 UTC
Permalink
On May 8, 12:44 pm, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :)  i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha?  she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there".  am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
probably gets it from both ends *Yuk*

how about we talk of less fleshy things, like the sex life of dung
beetles?
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 04:56:16 UTC
Permalink
"the six six six shrinking man" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:39f35f90-2bdc-4966-916d-***@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On May 8, 12:44 pm, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
probably gets it from both ends *Yuk*

how about we talk of less fleshy things, like the sex life of dung
beetles?

=================================

you mentioned her first. all the brother-dog
sex girls i know have graduated to more
intense sexual experiences.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 08:53:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
On May 8, 12:44 pm, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
probably gets it from both ends *Yuk*
how about we talk of less fleshy things, like the sex life of dung
beetles?
=================================
you mentioned her first. all the brother-dog
sex girls i know have graduated to more
intense sexual experiences.
did she leave you?
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 09:05:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
On May 8, 12:44 pm, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not
(necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
probably gets it from both ends *Yuk*
how about we talk of less fleshy things, like the sex life of dung
beetles?
=================================
you mentioned her first. all the brother-dog
sex girls i know have graduated to more
intense sexual experiences.
did she leave you?
the dog died
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 09:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by ^@%>---*=#
On May 8, 12:44 pm, the six six six shrinking man
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather
impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
probably gets it from both ends *Yuk*
how about we talk of less fleshy things, like the sex life of dung
beetles?
=================================
you mentioned her first. all the brother-dog
sex girls i know have graduated to more
intense sexual experiences.
did she leave you?
the dog died
pathetic desirous creature
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 04:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.

===============================

poor kid. he never stood a chance.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
===============================
poor kid. he never stood a chance.
that's the dogs name! or was it lucky
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 04:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
===============================
poor kid. he never stood a chance.
that's the dogs name! or was it lucky

=========================

sounds like they were both lucky
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 08:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
===============================
poor kid. he never stood a chance.
that's the dogs name!  or was it lucky
=========================
sounds like they were both lucky
depends who's listening.
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 09:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not
(necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
===============================
poor kid. he never stood a chance.
that's the dogs name! or was it lucky
=========================
sounds like they were both lucky
depends who's listening.
dogs have very acute hearing
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 09:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather
impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was (I thought) famous for proclaiming
"Purge desire by satiating desire!" (but Google refuses to
bear out my thought).
However one's desires may come to be purged (or expunged, or
simply not present), surely one without desire is not (necessarily)
one without life; such a one will breathe (without desiring to breathe,
or to not breathe), drink (without desiring to drink, or to not drink),
eat, fart, fondle brass statues, etc., etc., all without desire either
to do or to not do. Will such a one never pun? Why do you say so?
Lee Rudolph
i think osho screwed more underage
pussy than muktananda and koresh
combined.
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
=============================
does her brother get
jealous of the dog ?
he might have a sharp tongue but i think the dog wins in the tongue
competition.
===============================
poor kid. he never stood a chance.
that's the dogs name! or was it lucky
=========================
sounds like they were both lucky
depends who's listening.
dogs have very acute hearing
don't think too loudly or they might "get it"
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-08 10:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
'S'all right, "she"'s a 45-year-old FBI agent. Or a paunchy vigilante.

Lee Rudolph
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 10:07:59 UTC
Permalink
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :)  i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha?  she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there".  am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
'S'all right, "she"'s a 45-year-old FBI agent.  Or a paunchy vigilante.
Lee Rudolph
too far out for me then..
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 12:52:46 UTC
Permalink
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :)  i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha?  she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there".  am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
'S'all right, "she"'s a 45-year-old FBI agent.  Or a paunchy vigilante.
Lee Rudolph
she said in her profile 20, then said she is 15. but i was not
interested in the first place in meeting her. i don't know how i feel
about her using the internet to find a partner, but the only contact i
might want now is to warn her off again. there's no use in my profile
still being up except i am still in contact with some people from the
site, and check in. im sorry if i pinched some part of your rhino lol,
i was really thinking how far to take the story but i only said what
is true.
KittyP
2009-05-08 13:14:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by the six six six shrinking man
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :) i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha? she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there". am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
'S'all right, "she"'s a 45-year-old FBI agent. Or a paunchy vigilante.
Lee Rudolph
I would think that would be the lucky part. I mean there is also the
possibility that the more outrageous the story, the more likelihood of the
opportunity to hook up with a wackadoodle who might cut off ones hoo hoo and
gorilla glue it to a scrapbook

Kitty
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 13:19:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyP
"kids in cheap seats" and "underage pussy"...?? :)  i met a bizarre
girl on the internet who has sex with her brother and her dog and
wants to see what is "out there", i'm tossing up whether to inform her
father or asking her to buy a webcam.
on a serious note though, wha?  she is young and in that strange
sexual phase, i hope she doesn't meet any osho's or badly behaved dogs
"out there".  am a bit concerned! (she talked to me 2 days ago, it was
a little uncomfortable.)
'S'all right, "she"'s a 45-year-old FBI agent.  Or a paunchy vigilante.
Lee Rudolph
I would think that would be the lucky part. I mean there is also the
possibility that the more outrageous the story, the more likelihood of the
opportunity to hook up with a wackadoodle who might cut off ones hoo hoo and
gorilla glue it to a scrapbook
Kitty
meow? (now i have penis envy)
KittyP
2009-05-08 05:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Ned
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 08:54:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyP
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
 The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
 Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
 Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Ned
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends

i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 09:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Ned
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends

i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!

================================

faux penis envy
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 09:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Ned
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
P
Lee Rudolph
2009-05-08 10:09:19 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?

Lee Rudolph
miu2r2na
2009-05-08 11:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
fake orgasm
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 12:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by miu2r2na
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
fake orgasm
your a loser either way?
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 20:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
Lee Rudolph
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 20:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
Lee Rudolph
combines fake orgasms, faux penis
envy and faux vagina envy into a
comprehensive package of sociopathic
cum psychopathic droolisms and
ego pricklyisms.
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 23:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
Lee Rudolph
combines fake orgasms, faux penis
envy and faux vagina envy into a
comprehensive package of sociopathic
cum psychopathic droolisms and
ego pricklyisms.
you need a new dictionary, too much fauxisms.
^@%>---*=#
2009-05-08 23:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
Lee Rudolph
combines fake orgasms, faux penis
envy and faux vagina envy into a
comprehensive package of sociopathic
cum psychopathic droolisms and
ego pricklyisms.
you need a new dictionary, too much fauxisms.
my kingdom for a faux dictionary
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 23:25:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
Lee Rudolph
combines fake orgasms, faux penis
envy and faux vagina envy into a
comprehensive package of sociopathic
cum psychopathic droolisms and
ego pricklyisms.
you need a new dictionary, too much fauxisms.
my kingdom for a faux dictionary
i would just like a short man who spells to follow me around.
zenworm
2009-05-08 23:51:23 UTC
Permalink
On May 8, 7:25 pm, the six six six shrinking man
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by ^@%>---*=#
Post by Lee Rudolph
...
Post by the six six six shrinking man
Post by KittyP
I think it's one of your life lessons to live through our puns Ned.
But you're probably right.... no desire for puns, sex, fudge, or even a
microbrew.
Kitty
whistling kettles, ringing phones, horny boyfriends
i never understood how girls meditate with all those responsibilities!
================================
faux penis envy
So, if a rabbit's foot is supposed to help you get lucky (unless you're
the rabbit), what's a faux penis do for you?
Lee Rudolph
combines fake orgasms, faux penis
envy and faux vagina envy into a
comprehensive package of sociopathic
cum psychopathic droolisms and
ego pricklyisms.
you need a new dictionary, too much fauxisms.
my kingdom for a faux dictionary
i would just like a short man who spells to follow me around.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
not a tall woman?

ZN
DT
2009-05-08 13:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Ned
Now, see, it's people like you who make me think that if there's a
heaven, there have to be several heavens.

It wouldn't be heaven for you, if you had to listen to my puns.

It wouldn't be heaven for me, if there wasn't somebody like you there to
torment!

DT
("Come insight my parlor, said the spider...")
Ned Ludd
2009-05-08 16:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by DT
Post by Ned Ludd
Post by Lee Rudolph
Post by Love
Post by KittyP
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all
the conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive
Meditation Contest winners in absfg.
Only the serene survive.
Soto speak.
Lee Rudolph
Yes, there's nothing like a meditation contest the clarify
ones realization of where he or she fits in the hierarchy of
the enlightened.
Though I've heard that when one attains the highest level
of insight, all desire to make puns disappears.
Ned
Now, see, it's people like you who make me think that if there's a
heaven, there have to be several heavens.
It wouldn't be heaven for you, if you had to listen to my puns.
It wouldn't be heaven for me, if there wasn't somebody like you there
to torment!
DT
("Come insight my parlor, said the spider...")
For sure. In your heaven, your great-grandmother is a kindly,
elderly woman smelling vaguely of apple pie and cinnamon. But in
your great-grandmother's heaven, she is a young sassy flapper
dancing the Charleston and smoking cigarettes and drinking
bath-tub gin.

Ned
the six six six shrinking man
2009-05-08 04:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyP
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
 The Soto school was founded by Tung-shan (807-69) and
his student Ts'ao-shan (840-901), who lived 400 years
before Dogen (1200-1253).
Ned
It's sort of difficult for anyone to sift through enough of all the
conflicting literature when faced with the rather impressive Meditation
Contest winners in absfg.
Kitty
now, that's something i might do!
Love
2009-05-07 18:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an
enlightened state...
You're still mistaking the pointing finger for the
moon. When you stop all your striving and your
incessant word games, you can see the moon
in a dewdrop.
In Dogen's Zen practice, the primary realization
is the *oneness* of practice-enlightenment. The
practice of zazen and the experience of
enlightenment are one and the same - there is
no difference - no duality.
The practice of 'just sitting' is non-different
from the enlightenment - there is no gap
between your practice and your enlightenment.
Just sitting IS enlightenment. Zazen is not
step-by-step process - it is all-at-once or
nothing at all. There are no steps along the
way.
Pretty words well-suited for keeping those who despair
of their practice alleviating their suffering on their
mats, and well-suited for maintaining humility in
those who imagine themselves closer to enlightenment
than others.

OTOH, you can be saved by just believing on Jesus, too.
--
Love
zenworm
2009-05-07 20:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
Post by r***@rwilliams.us
If you can give up striving, you'll be in an
enlightened state...
You're still mistaking the pointing finger for the
moon. When you stop all your striving and your
incessant word games, you can see the moon
in a dewdrop.
In Dogen's Zen practice, the primary realization
is the *oneness* of practice-enlightenment. The
practice of zazen and the experience of
enlightenment are one and the same - there is
no difference - no duality.
The practice of 'just sitting' is non-different
from the enlightenment - there is no gap
between your practice and your enlightenment.
Just sitting IS enlightenment. Zazen is not
step-by-step process - it is all-at-once or
nothing at all. There are no steps along the
way.
    Fifty-four years lighting up the sky.
    A quivering leap smashes a billion worlds.
    Hah!
    Entire body looks for nothing.
    Living, I plunge into Yellow Springs.
"Once we trun our eyes from Japan to the
Western scene, we find that virtually nothing
has been introduced concerning Dogen - this
is unfortuante indeed, given that ignorance of
Soto Zen is tantamount to ignorance of Dogen,
its founder."
'Dogen Kigen--Mystical Realist'
by Hee-Jin Kim
Wisdom Publications, 2004
practice?

ZN
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