Discussion:
Guru Dev Photos
(too old to reply)
Ashtakinch
2005-02-19 05:19:33 UTC
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http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
Ashtakinch
2005-02-19 05:27:15 UTC
Permalink
And some of Maharishi :
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/mmytn.html
Some of Maharishi's handwriting
Loading Image...
j***@panix.com
2005-02-19 08:55:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashtakinch
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/mmytn.html
Some of Maharishi's handwriting
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/images/pics/curr/5930lp.jpg
Oh, man, the one of MMY's handwriting really knocked
me for a loop.

With handwriting, a kind of intimate, personal
communication takes place that you just don't get from
machine-made or digital type, or even from audio or
videotape (which has its own kind of communication, but
it's different). I never realized this before.

Take a look, folks. Does anybody else have this
same reaction? I almost felt as though I were seeing
something I wasn't supposed to see, but I'm darned if
I can say what it was! It's one of those totally
right-brained responses; I can't get it into the
area of my brain where I can put it into words, but
it's extraordinarily powerful.
j***@panix.com
2005-02-19 08:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashtakinch
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
Nice. I'm curious about the first one, where he appears
to be a relatively young man. When during his "career" was
this taken?
Michael Z.
2005-02-19 10:35:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@panix.com
Post by Ashtakinch
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
Nice. I'm curious about the first one, where he appears
to be a relatively young man. When during his "career" was
this taken?
I heard that it was taken when his master died, and he cut his hair. I
don't know exactly when this was.

About 5513 it was taken when he became Shankaracharya, obviously with all
the periphernilia of the office, which Guru Dev didn#t like. So on his
quest photo 5514 was taken which showed him as a simple sannyasin, with
his kamandalu (waterpot) and his dandi (stick).
premanandpaulmason
2005-02-19 18:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Z.
About 5513 it was taken when he became Shankaracharya, obviously with all
the periphernilia of the office, which Guru Dev didn#t like. So on his
quest photo 5514 was taken which showed him as a simple sannyasin, with
his kamandalu (waterpot) and his dandi (stick).
MMmmm - Perhaps some time after the investiture. In both 5513 & 5514
Guru Dev's hair is long - but he had his head shaved for the occasion
of his investiture as Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math - I have seen the
photos, including him riding atop of an elephant, definitely with head
shaven.

Incidentally, there is another photo [a copy is located in members
photo files at Yahoo group] which is similar to 5514 but with the
difference that Guru Dev has his eyes closed. When I opened these
images in FinePixViewer and flipped between them, he virtually came to
life!
Michael Z.
2005-02-20 21:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by premanandpaulmason
In both 5513 & 5514
Guru Dev's hair is long - but he had his head shaved for the occasion
of his investiture as Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math - I have seen the
photos, including him riding atop of an elephant, definitely with head
shaven.
Interesting. I never heard about that. Why would he cut his hair when he
became Shankaracharya?
j***@panix.com
2005-02-20 21:33:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Z.
Post by premanandpaulmason
In both 5513 & 5514
Guru Dev's hair is long - but he had his head shaved for the
occasion
Post by Michael Z.
Post by premanandpaulmason
of his investiture as Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math - I have seen the
photos, including him riding atop of an elephant, definitely with head
shaven.
Interesting. I never heard about that. Why would he cut his hair when he
became Shankaracharya?
Sign of humility, maybe?
John Manning
2005-02-20 21:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Z.
Post by premanandpaulmason
In both 5513 & 5514
Guru Dev's hair is long - but he had his head shaved for the occasion
of his investiture as Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math - I have seen the
photos, including him riding atop of an elephant, definitely with head
shaven.
Interesting. I never heard about that. Why would he cut his hair when he
became Shankaracharya?
It's traditional.
John Manning
2005-02-20 22:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Manning
Post by Michael Z.
Post by premanandpaulmason
In both 5513 & 5514
Guru Dev's hair is long - but he had his head shaved for the occasion
of his investiture as Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math - I have seen the
photos, including him riding atop of an elephant, definitely with head
shaven.
Interesting. I never heard about that. Why would he cut his hair when he
became Shankaracharya?
It's traditional.
It's traditional within certain sects when a family member dies. It's
also traditional when one's Guru dies. I don't know why. But, as I
recall from Maharishi's commentary on the Gita [I may be wrong and heard
it somewhere else] the cutting of the hair releases a certain energy.

I recall hearing about the shock of people seeing Maharishi's
Brahmachari Sattyanand when he showed up with a haircut after someone in
his family had died.

I haven't heard anything about Sattyanand for years. Anyone know?

Sattyanand was also a devotee of Guru Dev. I heard him tell his story of
having met Guru Dev when Sattyanand gave a course in the mountains near
Los Angeles. Can't remember the name of the place. But I recall that
Prudence Farrow [sister of Mia Farrow] was there. Gave her a lift to her
cabin one day. Last I heard she was a TM teacher.
t***@aol.com
2005-02-21 10:49:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Manning
Can't remember the name of the place. But I recall that
Prudence Farrow [sister of Mia Farrow] was there. Gave her a lift to her
cabin one day. Last I heard she was a TM teacher.
Also the subject of the Beatles' "Dear Prudence."
Don't know anything about Sattyanand these days.

Unc
LawsonE
2005-02-21 13:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by John Manning
Can't remember the name of the place. But I recall that
Prudence Farrow [sister of Mia Farrow] was there. Gave her a lift to
her
Post by John Manning
cabin one day. Last I heard she was a TM teacher.
Also the subject of the Beatles' "Dear Prudence."
Don't know anything about Sattyanand these days.
He was a bit older than MMY wasn't he?
LawsonE
2005-02-21 13:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by LawsonE
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by John Manning
Can't remember the name of the place. But I recall that
Prudence Farrow [sister of Mia Farrow] was there. Gave her a lift to
her
Post by John Manning
cabin one day. Last I heard she was a TM teacher.
Also the subject of the Beatles' "Dear Prudence."
Don't know anything about Sattyanand these days.
He was a bit older than MMY wasn't he?
Wait, Sattyananda Saraswatti? Died some time ago.
John Manning
2005-02-21 15:13:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by LawsonE
Post by LawsonE
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by John Manning
Can't remember the name of the place. But I recall that
Prudence Farrow [sister of Mia Farrow] was there. Gave her a lift to
her
Post by John Manning
cabin one day. Last I heard she was a TM teacher.
Also the subject of the Beatles' "Dear Prudence."
Don't know anything about Sattyanand these days.
He was a bit older than MMY wasn't he?
Wait, Sattyananda Saraswatti? Died some time ago.
That's a different name.
premanandpaulmason
2005-02-22 15:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Great to read the comments made about the photos of Guru Dev.
I am in search of any fresh material on Guru Dev - photos, recordings,
anything at all.
I am quite happy to share my Guru Dev resources including scans
(.jpegs) of Hindi books of his lectures and .mp3's of wire recordings
of teachings and prayers (including Bhaja Govindam).
John Manning
2005-02-22 15:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by premanandpaulmason
Great to read the comments made about the photos of Guru Dev.
I am in search of any fresh material on Guru Dev - photos, recordings,
anything at all.
I am quite happy to share my Guru Dev resources including scans
(.jpegs) of Hindi books of his lectures and .mp3's of wire recordings
of teachings and prayers (including Bhaja Govindam).
Go to Google 'Images' and enter "Guru Dev" or "Swami Brahmananda
Saraswati". You may see something there you haven't seen before.
Dave Livingston
2005-02-22 15:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by premanandpaulmason
Great to read the comments made about the photos of Guru Dev.
I am in search of any fresh material on Guru Dev - photos, recordings,
anything at all.
I am quite happy to share my Guru Dev resources including scans
(.jpegs) of Hindi books of his lectures and .mp3's of wire recordings
of teachings and prayers (including Bhaja Govindam).
How would you go about sharing your .jpgs?
I've been on the Adobe Photoshop forum since about 2000. I think its only
within the last year or so that pixentral has been available. The service
represents an enormous leap forward in visual communications technology.
eki
2005-02-19 20:59:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@panix.com
Post by Ashtakinch
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
Nice. I'm curious about the first one, where he appears
to be a relatively young man. When during his "career" was
this taken?
According to LIFE, November 1990, p. 84, "circa 1900".
premanandpaulmason
2005-02-20 23:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by eki
Post by j***@panix.com
Nice. I'm curious about the first one, where he appears
to be a relatively young man. When during his "career" was
this taken?
According to LIFE, November 1990, p. 84, "circa 1900".
In this picture Guru Dev's beard was already greying, yet if this had
been in 1900 he would have only been about 30 years old. Yet he didn't
look particularly aged even when taking his first job, as
Shankaracharya, at about 70 years old. However, he did appear to age
very swiftly thereon.
John Manning
2005-02-19 20:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ashtakinch
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
The photo numbered 5514, when in good resolution, shows actual heat
waves around Guru Dev's head. Visually, it's like looking along the side
of a wall on a hot day - except the waves form a circle around Guru
Dev's head.

I have a good quality copy of the original that I acquired around 1970.
The apparently precise circle is subtle but obviously detectable.
t***@aol.com
2005-02-20 15:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Manning
The photo numbered 5514, when in good resolution, shows actual heat
waves around Guru Dev's head. Visually, it's like looking along the side
of a wall on a hot day - except the waves form a circle around Guru
Dev's head.
I have a good quality copy of the original that I acquired around 1970.
The apparently precise circle is subtle but obviously detectable.
I had one of those, too, and asked a friend who was a professional
photographer to look at it under his 'scope. The "heat waves" were
added in the darkroom. It's a common practice in India.

Unc
John Manning
2005-02-20 18:58:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by John Manning
The photo numbered 5514, when in good resolution, shows actual heat
waves around Guru Dev's head. Visually, it's like looking along the
side
Post by John Manning
of a wall on a hot day - except the waves form a circle around Guru
Dev's head.
I have a good quality copy of the original that I acquired around
1970.
Post by John Manning
The apparently precise circle is subtle but obviously detectable.
I had one of those, too, and asked a friend who was a professional
photographer to look at it under his 'scope. The "heat waves" were
added in the darkroom. It's a common practice in India.
Mebbe, mebbe not. I really don't know. But you didn't provide any
verifiable info at all. What were the credentials of this 'professional'
photographer friend of yours to be able to come to those conclusions?
'Scope'? What is a 'scope'? Did you have an actual original negative?
Where did you get that "heat waves" are added as a common practise in
India?

I've seen halo's added to many paintings and halos added to a few
photographs - which are obvious - but never "heat waves". I've never
seen any other photo like the one we're talking about, with "heat
waves". Got one to show? ...just one? ...with "heat waves?
Post by t***@aol.com
Unc
s***@netscape.net
2005-02-21 05:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Manning
Post by t***@aol.com
Post by John Manning
The photo numbered 5514, when in good resolution, shows actual heat
waves around Guru Dev's head. Visually, it's like looking along the
side
Post by John Manning
of a wall on a hot day - except the waves form a circle around Guru
Dev's head.
I have a good quality copy of the original that I acquired around
1970.
Post by John Manning
The apparently precise circle is subtle but obviously detectable.
I had one of those, too, and asked a friend who was a professional
photographer to look at it under his 'scope. The "heat waves" were
added in the darkroom. It's a common practice in India.
Mebbe, mebbe not. I really don't know. But you didn't provide any
verifiable info at all.
Tantra, you fool.

Don't you know that the onus is on YOU to prove that those are not
actual heat waves?
Post by John Manning
What were the credentials of this 'professional'
photographer friend of yours to be able to come to those conclusions?
Yeah, like this photographer has the gall to suggest that Guru Dev's
photo isn't of a real aura. What are his credentials...from Harvard or
something insignificant like that? Why, he should have a degree from
real institution of learning like Scientology U. or Hamburger U. if he
dare make such outrageous claims.
Post by John Manning
'Scope'? What is a 'scope'? Did you have an actual original negative?
Where did you get that "heat waves" are added as a common practise in
India?
Forget the fact that almost every picture of a saint has a halo around
it (see Muktananda's master's picture or other photos of Guru Dev) that
has ever come out of India.
Post by John Manning
I've seen halo's added to many paintings and halos added to a few
photographs - which are obvious - but never "heat waves". I've never
seen any other photo like the one we're talking about, with "heat
waves". Got one to show? ...just one? ...with "heat waves?
....like I said, it's either hemmerhoids or maybe hot flashes...
Post by John Manning
Post by t***@aol.com
Unc
t***@aol.com
2005-02-21 06:50:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Manning
Mebbe, mebbe not. I really don't know. But you didn't provide any
verifiable info at all. What were the credentials of this
'professional'
Post by John Manning
photographer friend of yours to be able to come to those conclusions?
Well, about a dozen published books of his photographs,
another half dozen manuals on the art of photography
and "darkroom tricks," and a part-time gig with the L.A.
County D.A.'s office analyzing photographs for court cases
to see if they had been altered. He was a TMer; I knew him
because he came to my advanced lectures. He asked to
borrow the photograph because he was curious.
Post by John Manning
'Scope'? What is a 'scope'?
Microscope. You used to use it in forensic photography
to check the grain of a photograph for signs of "dodging"
or other forms of alteration. Different techniques are
used now to detect digital photos that have been altered.
It's more difficult with digital photography, but experts
can still find the alterations most of the time.
Post by John Manning
Did you have an actual original negative?
Nope. But neither did any of the court cases.
Post by John Manning
Where did you get that "heat waves" are added as a common
practise in India?
From looking at photographs of "saints" offered for sale.
The vast majority of them have been altered to make
them look more "holy." It seems that people have this
insatiable desire for "proof" that the teachers they
follow or that they choose to admire are worth follow-
ing and admiring.

Look at the Guru Dev photographs on the site, for
example. The color photographs weren't taken in color.
They've been hand-painted; the originals were black
and white. Color photos sell better.

Unc
Michael Z.
2005-02-21 21:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@aol.com
Look at the Guru Dev photographs on the site, for
example. The color photographs weren't taken in color.
They've been hand-painted; the originals were black
and white. Color photos sell better.
Not necessarily because it sells better. According to my info Maharishi
handcolored quite a few b&w photos of Guru Dev himself, for example when
he was on his way to south India. He did this as a devotional practise.
thats what I heard from my friends who teach in India since about 20
years. There may be other pictures who have been colored later by some
Indian company to sell better, no doubt.
t***@aol.com
2005-02-21 21:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Z.
Not necessarily because it sells better. According to my
info Maharishi handcolored quite a few b&w photos of Guru
Dev himself, for example when he was on his way to south
India. He did this as a devotional practise.
That's cool...sort of a modern counterpart of
illuminated manuscripts.
premanandpaulmason
2005-02-22 09:54:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Z.
Post by t***@aol.com
and white. Color photos sell better.
Not necessarily because it sells better. According to my info Maharishi
handcolored quite a few b&w photos of Guru Dev himself, for example when
he was on his way to south India. He did this as a devotional practise.
thats what I heard from my friends who teach in India since about 20
years. There may be other pictures who have been colored later by some
Indian company to sell better, no doubt.
Any idea which ones?
The professional coloured ones were coloured by Delhi Photo Company,
Janpath, New Delhi in the 80's and a couple in England in the '70's.
That leaves only three that I know of - 5515 & 5516 on Vedic Art
Gallery site http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
and the one on this arab site
http://www.maharishitm.org/lovegod/gurudev.htm
Michael Z.
2005-02-22 10:45:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by premanandpaulmason
Post by Michael Z.
Post by t***@aol.com
and white. Color photos sell better.
Not necessarily because it sells better. According to my info Maharishi
handcolored quite a few b&w photos of Guru Dev himself, for example when
he was on his way to south India. He did this as a devotional practise.
thats what I heard from my friends who teach in India since about 20
years. There may be other pictures who have been colored later by some
Indian company to sell better, no doubt.
Any idea which ones?
The professional coloured ones were coloured by Delhi Photo Company,
Janpath, New Delhi in the 80's and a couple in England in the '70's.
That leaves only three that I know of - 5515 & 5516 on Vedic Art
Gallery site http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
and the one on this arab site
http://www.maharishitm.org/lovegod/gurudev.htm
I really don't know. They may not even be on sale. I have this information
from a friend who stays in south India, and visited people whom Maharishi
had visited on his way to KanyaKumari. Surely the ones Delhi Photo Company
sold don't include it. I vaguely remember that my friend pointed to a phot
which is in the history book, where Maharishi is pictured with his arm
around a photo/painting of Guru Dev, dated around 1955. There are several
photos like this in the history book, mostly they seem to show Maharishi
with the initiation photo of Guru Dev. But also many of these photos have
been manipulated with airbrush, as they have bad qualities.
Sorry, this is not much of a help, but I thought that this information is
interesting.
Michael Z.
2005-02-22 10:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Z.
Post by premanandpaulmason
That leaves only three that I know of - 5515 & 5516 on Vedic Art
Gallery site http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
If any of these than rather 5515, at least that's the style (not the
painting style, I don't know, but the style of photos I seem to remember
he portrayed.)
Post by Michael Z.
Post by premanandpaulmason
and the one on this arab site
http://www.maharishitm.org/lovegod/gurudev.htm
I don't think.
Post by Michael Z.
I really don't know. They may not even be on sale
t***@aol.com
2005-02-21 07:22:10 UTC
Permalink
BTW, nothing to do with guru photos, this L.A. photographer
really didn't have that great an "eye," IMO. His personal
photos didn't do much for me. But early on he had developed
a fascination with darkroom techniques as a result of meeting
Ansel Adams. In his house, this photographer had one of
the most interesting displays of art and What Art Is I've ever
seen. It was a wall containing three pairs of Ansel Adams
prints. In each pair was a print that Adams had made directly
from the negative, without the use of any darkroom techniques
like dodging and spotting in. Then next to it was a print of the
photo as we know it from its published version. It was a
fascinating side-by-side. As fanatical as he was about
exposure and getting the light "just right," the art was still
only virtual on many of his negatives. It took some darkroom
magic to make it art.

Unc
s***@netscape.net
2005-02-21 05:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Manning
Post by Ashtakinch
http://www.oakriversoftware.com/vedicart/gallery/thumbs/sbstn.html
The photo numbered 5514, when in good resolution, shows actual heat
waves around Guru Dev's head. Visually, it's like looking along the side
of a wall on a hot day - except the waves form a circle around Guru
Dev's head.
I have a good quality copy of the original that I acquired around 1970.
The apparently precise circle is subtle but obviously detectable.
I have a picture of little children in England about 70 years ago
showing them playing with actual faeries.

I also have some swamp land in Florida you may be interested in.
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