Discussion:
chanting mantra
(too old to reply)
ajna
2003-12-15 07:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Hi,


I read this thread about mantras. I don't have much experience or
knowledge on this and few questions rised in my mind.

What's the difference between chanting mantra loud making sound, and
not making sound?

What's the difference between mantra that guru gives in initiation and
a "mantra" that you choose yourself some other way?




-ajna
Piotr Neuman
2003-12-15 07:53:28 UTC
Permalink
It's your mind that makes mantras work. Remember about proper bhava
(feeling) and concentration...

There should be a better explanation:
http://www.SivanandaDlshq.org/download/download.htm
anon
2003-12-16 00:17:13 UTC
Permalink
in general, when the mind is running out of control you'll
manage to control with loud chanting. usually 15-20 minutes
of loud chanting should get most minds on a leash...

as mind gets subtle, the chanting should too....
till you are comfortable in the uncaused sound
(aka the yoni mudra in which you are as if
in the womb of the Divine aka Hiranyagarbh )..
Post by ajna
Hi,
I read this thread about mantras. I don't have much experience or
knowledge on this and few questions rised in my mind.
What's the difference between chanting mantra loud making sound, and
not making sound?
What's the difference between mantra that guru gives in initiation and
a "mantra" that you choose yourself some other way?
-ajna
Jahnu
2003-12-16 12:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ajna
Hi,
I read this thread about mantras. I don't have much experience or
knowledge on this and few questions rised in my mind.
What's the difference between chanting mantra loud making sound, and
not making sound?
What's the difference between mantra that guru gives in initiation and
a "mantra" that you choose yourself some other way?
The difference is that a mantra you have concocted yourself or
received from dubious sources, which means if you have to pay a large
sum of money for it, you can't be sure of the result. A mantra
received in an authorized disciplic succession is guaranteed the
desired result.

According to the classical yoga techniques the way to meditate is to
focus the mind on one single point. To concentrate on one point is
very difficult with the endless flow of thoughts constantly entering
one's mind.

The idea is to subdue all thoughts, and not to just let them space out
as they like in the mind. Yoga means to control the mind, and break
the condition then mind has over one's pure knowledge.

Thus to quiet down the mind, to make it still, you need a mantra, a
word, to concentrate on. The word mantra comes from Sanskrit -
mana-trayate - that which frees or protects the mind.
Then the idea is to make the breathing slow.
This is done the following way.

You sit in a comfortable position, with the back, neck, and head
alined in an erect position. You should sit as far below on your
buttocks as possible. Don't place the seat near the place where the
spine joins your pelvis.

Then pretend being a bottle. You now fill the bottle - your torso -
very slowly with air. Breathe through the nose, and slowly fill in air
beginning from the lowest point in the abdomen all the way up to the
neck. Take your time, and don't use any breast muscles in the
breathing process. Use your abdomen. And breathe only through the
nose, both inhaling and exhaling.

Then when you are full of air, hold it for a short while, 5-10
seconds, and gradually, very slowly, release the air, controlling the
out going breath with the abdomen. Release the air as slowly as
possible, by keeping it back and sort of let it seep out. In this way
you can train yourself up, and gradually prolong your breathing cycles
to the point where you can almost stop breathing and sit in trance. It
may take a few hundred years to become that good.

Then when you have gotten the breathing together you can introduce a
mantra, which is always a name of God. The real purpose of meditation
is actually to connect with God, by concentrating on the sound of His
name. Usually, for internal meditation, the mantra Om or AUM is
befitting. It is pronounced "aauum", and it is good because you can
fit it to the sound of the in going and outgoing breath. In effect you
prolong the sound aum to match one in going breath, then a new aum for
the holding of the breath, and finally one aum for the outgoing
breath.

If you can sit every day for 30 minutes and breathe in cycles of, say,
one minute, and concentrate your thoughts on the syllable "om" - which
is the sound representation of God, that usually addresses His
impersonal aspect, it will have an enormous, beneficial effect on your
mental and physical well being.

Now, the thing is, that according to the sages, the classical astanga
yoga system is not recommended in the age of Kali, for the simple fat
that in this age of strife and hypocrisy it is not possible for
ordinary human beings to perform this stringent method. To be
successful in this process requires the observance of complete
celibacy for many many years or even for many lifetimes.

But by the mercy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu the means of deliverance has
become very easy, in this fallen age, where the general mass of people
have lost all their inherent spiritual powers, for simply by chanting
the Hare Krishna maha-mantra one can very easily attain the goal
sought by all yogis - reunion with the Supreme.

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare,
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

The goal of meditation is to focus on God. In the japa-meditation
technique one repeats swiftly the mantra softly to oneself, usually
counting the mantras on a japa-mala - a string of prayer beads like a
rosary.

You block out all thoughts of the mind by concentrating on hearing the
sound of the mantra. You should only hear the sound of God's names,
and nothing else. Every time the mind flickers or wavers, one must
bring it back under controll and fix it on the mantra. To chant the
names of God on a regular daily basis, is the recommended process of
meditation or religion for this age.

It is stated in the Vedas, the ancient Sanskrit literatures that are
the basis of all knowledge there is originally to be found on the
subject matter of yoga, karma, reincarnation, meditation, chakras, and
what do you have, that the method of meditation recommended for this
age - the present age of quarrel and hypocrisy, called Kali-yuga - is
to repeat God's names.

This method can be applied within any religious tradition and is thus
universally applicable.

You might want to take note that the Sanskrit word "yoga" is
equivalent to the Latin word "religion" or re-ligio, which means to
reconnect. Yoga means to connect.

So meditation is a way of focusing one's mind on God, and in this way
connect with Him and feel His love. Since we don't know God, we focus
on Him through His name. Since God is absolute there is no difference
between Him and His name. He is present fully in His name. As we
progress on the path of meditation we shall realize this more and
more.

The technique is to softly and swiftly repeat the Hare Krishna mantra
to oneself. One can also do it purely mentally, but the sages state
that it is more effective to chant softly.

Meditation means to concentrate and focus, so therefore one should not
allow any other thoughts to enter the mind. One should concentrate
fully on hearing the mantra and nothing else. One can make this a
daily process and experience great relief from the burden of one's
karma. This process of chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is said to be
the only effective way of meditating in the age of Kali. The below
mantra is the mantra said to be authorized for all living entities in
this age.

"Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare,
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

The above mantra, consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables, is the only
way by which to counteract the evil influence of Kali-yuga. After
having searched through all the Vedas, one will find no more sublime
method of religion than the chanting of the holy name."

(Kalisantarana-Upanisad)

Please also refer to the address in my sig. It has all the info you
are looking for, presented and authorized by the disciplic succession.




www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
Steve Ralph
2003-12-16 12:49:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
Post by ajna
Hi,
I read this thread about mantras. I don't have much experience or
knowledge on this and few questions rised in my mind.
What's the difference between chanting mantra loud making sound, and
not making sound?
What's the difference between mantra that guru gives in initiation and
a "mantra" that you choose yourself some other way?
The difference is that a mantra you have concocted yourself or
received from dubious sources, which means if you have to pay a large
sum of money for it, you can't be sure of the result. A mantra
received in an authorized disciplic succession is guaranteed the
desired result.
According to the classical yoga techniques the way to meditate is to
focus the mind on one single point. To concentrate on one point is
very difficult with the endless flow of thoughts constantly entering
one's mind.
The idea is to subdue all thoughts, and not to just let them space out
as they like in the mind.
Yoga means to control the mind,
No, it means union

SR
Post by Jahnu
and break
the condition then mind has over one's pure knowledge.
Thus to quiet down the mind, to make it still, you need a mantra, a
word, to concentrate on. The word mantra comes from Sanskrit -
mana-trayate - that which frees or protects the mind.
Then the idea is to make the breathing slow.
This is done the following way.
You sit in a comfortable position, with the back, neck, and head
alined in an erect position. You should sit as far below on your
buttocks as possible. Don't place the seat near the place where the
spine joins your pelvis.
Then pretend being a bottle. You now fill the bottle - your torso -
very slowly with air. Breathe through the nose, and slowly fill in air
beginning from the lowest point in the abdomen all the way up to the
neck. Take your time, and don't use any breast muscles in the
breathing process. Use your abdomen. And breathe only through the
nose, both inhaling and exhaling.
Then when you are full of air, hold it for a short while, 5-10
seconds, and gradually, very slowly, release the air, controlling the
out going breath with the abdomen. Release the air as slowly as
possible, by keeping it back and sort of let it seep out. In this way
you can train yourself up, and gradually prolong your breathing cycles
to the point where you can almost stop breathing and sit in trance. It
may take a few hundred years to become that good.
Then when you have gotten the breathing together you can introduce a
mantra, which is always a name of God. The real purpose of meditation
is actually to connect with God, by concentrating on the sound of His
name. Usually, for internal meditation, the mantra Om or AUM is
befitting. It is pronounced "aauum", and it is good because you can
fit it to the sound of the in going and outgoing breath. In effect you
prolong the sound aum to match one in going breath, then a new aum for
the holding of the breath, and finally one aum for the outgoing
breath.
If you can sit every day for 30 minutes and breathe in cycles of, say,
one minute, and concentrate your thoughts on the syllable "om" - which
is the sound representation of God, that usually addresses His
impersonal aspect, it will have an enormous, beneficial effect on your
mental and physical well being.
Now, the thing is, that according to the sages, the classical astanga
yoga system is not recommended in the age of Kali, for the simple fat
that in this age of strife and hypocrisy it is not possible for
ordinary human beings to perform this stringent method. To be
successful in this process requires the observance of complete
celibacy for many many years or even for many lifetimes.
But by the mercy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu the means of deliverance has
become very easy, in this fallen age, where the general mass of people
have lost all their inherent spiritual powers, for simply by chanting
the Hare Krishna maha-mantra one can very easily attain the goal
sought by all yogis - reunion with the Supreme.
Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare,
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.
The goal of meditation is to focus on God. In the japa-meditation
technique one repeats swiftly the mantra softly to oneself, usually
counting the mantras on a japa-mala - a string of prayer beads like a
rosary.
You block out all thoughts of the mind by concentrating on hearing the
sound of the mantra. You should only hear the sound of God's names,
and nothing else. Every time the mind flickers or wavers, one must
bring it back under controll and fix it on the mantra. To chant the
names of God on a regular daily basis, is the recommended process of
meditation or religion for this age.
It is stated in the Vedas, the ancient Sanskrit literatures that are
the basis of all knowledge there is originally to be found on the
subject matter of yoga, karma, reincarnation, meditation, chakras, and
what do you have, that the method of meditation recommended for this
age - the present age of quarrel and hypocrisy, called Kali-yuga - is
to repeat God's names.
This method can be applied within any religious tradition and is thus
universally applicable.
You might want to take note that the Sanskrit word "yoga" is
equivalent to the Latin word "religion" or re-ligio, which means to
reconnect. Yoga means to connect.
So meditation is a way of focusing one's mind on God, and in this way
connect with Him and feel His love. Since we don't know God, we focus
on Him through His name. Since God is absolute there is no difference
between Him and His name. He is present fully in His name. As we
progress on the path of meditation we shall realize this more and
more.
The technique is to softly and swiftly repeat the Hare Krishna mantra
to oneself. One can also do it purely mentally, but the sages state
that it is more effective to chant softly.
Meditation means to concentrate and focus, so therefore one should not
allow any other thoughts to enter the mind. One should concentrate
fully on hearing the mantra and nothing else. One can make this a
daily process and experience great relief from the burden of one's
karma. This process of chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is said to be
the only effective way of meditating in the age of Kali. The below
mantra is the mantra said to be authorized for all living entities in
this age.
"Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare,
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.
The above mantra, consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables, is the only
way by which to counteract the evil influence of Kali-yuga. After
having searched through all the Vedas, one will find no more sublime
method of religion than the chanting of the holy name."
(Kalisantarana-Upanisad)
Please also refer to the address in my sig. It has all the info you
are looking for, presented and authorized by the disciplic succession.
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
anon
2003-12-16 14:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Ralph
Post by Jahnu
Yoga means to control the mind,
No, it means union
both are correct. in the wider spiritual sense yoga means
union, in the technical sense yoga means prevention
of alterations in the mind-stuff....
Steve Ralph
2003-12-16 14:19:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by anon
Post by Steve Ralph
Post by Jahnu
Yoga means to control the mind,
No, it means union
both are correct. in the wider spiritual sense yoga means
union, in the technical sense yoga means prevention
of alterations in the mind-stuff....
:>) that puts it rather better.

SR
LawsonE
2003-12-17 06:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by anon
Post by Steve Ralph
Post by Jahnu
Yoga means to control the mind,
No, it means union
both are correct. in the wider spiritual sense yoga means
union, in the technical sense yoga means prevention
of alterations in the mind-stuff....
Which is, according to TM research and theory, a Sanskrity way of saying
that the attention-switching mechanism of the brain is idling, thereby
allowing the nervous system to rest, etc., etc., etc.

My interpretation of thousands of years old writings can beat your
inpretation, nyah, nyah.
Jahnu
2003-12-17 05:29:53 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:49:01 -0000, "Steve Ralph"
Post by Steve Ralph
Post by Jahnu
Yoga means to control the mind,
No, it means union
Sure the word yoga means union, but the process of yoga is entirely
about controlling the mind, because before you can control the mind,
at least somewhat, there is going to be no union with God.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
LawsonE
2003-12-17 06:36:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:49:01 -0000, "Steve Ralph"
Post by Steve Ralph
Post by Jahnu
Yoga means to control the mind,
No, it means union
Sure the word yoga means union, but the process of yoga is entirely
about controlling the mind, because before you can control the mind,
at least somewhat, there is going to be no union with God.
Control is a misleading term to use, or so I assert.


Nyah.
Jahnu
2003-12-17 14:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by LawsonE
Post by Jahnu
Sure the word yoga means union, but the process of yoga is entirely
about controlling the mind, because before you can control the mind,
at least somewhat, there is going to be no union with God.
Control is a misleading term to use, or so I assert.
You literally have to learn to control the mind. Like you, Arjuna in
the Bhagavad Gita rejects it, and tells Krishna that to control the
mind is harder than controlling the raging wind, but Krishna assures
him that the mind can be controlled by practice and detachment.

So what is the practice and detachment?

The practice is to focus the mind. It is by focusing the mind that you
control it, and in this age it has been made very easy to focus the
mind by reciting the Hare Krishna mantra. It is called japa meditation
when the mind is made to focus on the sound of the mantra. The art is
to focus the mind without letting it wander here and there as it is
accustomed to. Whenever the mind wavers it must be brought back under
the control of the mantra. By continuously fixing and directing the
mind on the sound of the mantra one can practice control of the mind.

In japa meditation the process is to swiftly repeat the mantra to
oneself over and over again either softly or silently in the mind. It
is easier to vibrate the mantra with your voice. Meditation means to
control the mind, control means focus, and the focus is on sound, so
the mind is controlled by sound and the sound is the mantra. A mantra
will always include a name of God. If it doesn't, you can know for
sure it is not a mantra. The word mantra means in sanskrit that which
protects and liberates the mind. Mana - mind, and tra(yate) - protect
and set free.

The detachment is practiced by screening the input of the mind and not
allowing it to dwell on the impressions of the sense objects. In other
words, one must gradually detach the mind from the sense objects and
turn it to the inner source of pleasure in stead. This inner
satisfaction is automatically obtained by chanting the Hare Krishna
mantra, though, so it is not something you have to worry about. It'll
happen automatically by the grace of Krishna's name.

In the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra there is no need to
practice detachment separately. The practice alone will do the job in
controlling the mind. So powerful is Krishna's name. Another feature
of the Hare Krishna mantra is that it immediately transports the self
to the platform of satisfaction.



www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
LawsonE
2003-12-18 06:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
Post by LawsonE
Post by Jahnu
Sure the word yoga means union, but the process of yoga is entirely
about controlling the mind, because before you can control the mind,
at least somewhat, there is going to be no union with God.
Control is a misleading term to use, or so I assert.
You literally have to learn to control the mind. Like you, Arjuna in
the Bhagavad Gita rejects it, and tells Krishna that to control the
mind is harder than controlling the raging wind, but Krishna assures
him that the mind can be controlled by practice and detachment.
So what is the practice and detachment?
The "practice and detachment" is called "dyhan." A well-known variation of
dyhan is called "Transcendental Meditation."

Nyah.
Post by Jahnu
The practice is to focus the mind. It is by focusing the mind that you
control it, and in this age it has been made very easy to focus the
mind by reciting the Hare Krishna mantra. It is called japa meditation
when the mind is made to focus on the sound of the mantra. The art is
to focus the mind without letting it wander here and there as it is
accustomed to. Whenever the mind wavers it must be brought back under
the control of the mantra. By continuously fixing and directing the
mind on the sound of the mantra one can practice control of the mind.
In japa meditation the process is to swiftly repeat the mantra to
oneself over and over again either softly or silently in the mind. It
is easier to vibrate the mantra with your voice. Meditation means to
control the mind, control means focus, and the focus is on sound, so
the mind is controlled by sound and the sound is the mantra. A mantra
will always include a name of God. If it doesn't, you can know for
sure it is not a mantra. The word mantra means in sanskrit that which
protects and liberates the mind. Mana - mind, and tra(yate) - protect
and set free.
The detachment is practiced by screening the input of the mind and not
allowing it to dwell on the impressions of the sense objects. In other
words, one must gradually detach the mind from the sense objects and
turn it to the inner source of pleasure in stead. This inner
satisfaction is automatically obtained by chanting the Hare Krishna
mantra, though, so it is not something you have to worry about. It'll
happen automatically by the grace of Krishna's name.
In the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra there is no need to
practice detachment separately. The practice alone will do the job in
controlling the mind. So powerful is Krishna's name. Another feature
of the Hare Krishna mantra is that it immediately transports the self
to the platform of satisfaction.
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
Jahnu
2003-12-18 10:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by LawsonE
The "practice and detachment" is called "dyhan." A well-known variation of
dyhan is called "Transcendental Meditation."
I think you refer to dhyana, the 7th step in the ashtanga yoga
process. Dhyana means meditation and it is preceeded by 6 other angas
or steps of yoga. The 8 fold yoga system progresses from yama (things
to avoid), niyama (things to encourage), asana (positions or hatha
yoga), pranayama (reducing the cycle of breath), pratyahara (turning
the senses away from the external sense objects), dharana (maintaining
inner balance, no more external awareness, dhyana (meditation) and
then samadhi (absorbtion).

As you can see, meditation comes quite far down the line of things you
have to know and practice before you can hope to meditate on anything,
what to speak of becoming enlightened when you finally connect with
the Supersoul in the heart.




www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
LawsonE
2003-12-18 22:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
Post by LawsonE
The "practice and detachment" is called "dyhan." A well-known variation of
dyhan is called "Transcendental Meditation."
I think you refer to dhyana, the 7th step in the ashtanga yoga
process. Dhyana means meditation and it is preceeded by 6 other angas
or steps of yoga. The 8 fold yoga system progresses from yama (things
to avoid), niyama (things to encourage), asana (positions or hatha
yoga), pranayama (reducing the cycle of breath), pratyahara (turning
the senses away from the external sense objects), dharana (maintaining
inner balance, no more external awareness, dhyana (meditation) and
then samadhi (absorbtion).
As you can see, meditation comes quite far down the line of things you
have to know and practice before you can hope to meditate on anything,
what to speak of becoming enlightened when you finally connect with
the Supersoul in the heart.
The old TM founder, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, interprets things a tad
differently. He believes that all other branches of Yoga are daily
preparation for dhyan, which will lead to samadhi when the nervous system is
ready for it. Ignoring the practice of meditation makes the process of
enlightenment take much longer.

ajna
2003-12-17 07:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jahnu
The difference is that a mantra you have concocted yourself or
received from dubious sources, which means if you have to pay a large
sum of money for it, you can't be sure of the result. A mantra
received in an authorized disciplic succession is guaranteed the
desired result.
Thanks for your long reply.
Trish
2003-12-16 15:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Making sound out loud, using your voice... is vibration. Just as our bodies
are vibrating, many spiritualists believe raising this vibration heals and
brings you closer to God. As you use your physical voice sound resonates
through your self and into the spiritual realm. Everything has a frequency,
animate and inanimate. The rate at which atoms bounce off eachother. That is
science. What I have read, is that heaven (and/or other dimensions) vibrate
at a higher frequency, thus we cant see or hear them. As we practice lifting
our own level of vibration, we can reach these higher realms, through
meditation and mantras.

This was taken straight from my Angel Blessings cards.... "Emotions create
vibration.....You were born with the spiritual power to express yourself and
hold your space open with your emotional vibration. Have you ever watched
babies cry? They put every ounce of themselves into their wail. As a growing
child, you were porbably taught to be quiet and sit still, not to cry,
express feelings, or vibrate. After a while, you began to feel life and
space closing in on you, as if you had less and less personal freedom, were
controlled, trapped and compressed. You lost your spiritual power and the
ability to bibrate enough to hold your space open. And so, you began to die.

Your vibration causes the magnetic attraction that draws the life force to
you. This is the electronic light substance that nourishes the body and
spirit, connecting you to your Eternal Self. The more dense you become, the
slower your emotions vibrate. It becomes more difficult to change yourself.
Recovering your true feelings is the way to reclaim y our spiritual power.
This is done through emotional release. First, work to free your feelings,
and your thoughts will follow".... express your emotions good and bad, in a
safe place.

I love to sing. I feel uplifted, and I do believe thats exactly whats going
on spiritually, and in my physical body. My vibration is higher. I guess
that would be the way that I chant. Whatever feels right to you.

I have also tried to meditate, on my own, guided on tape, and guided in
person. I can tell you from experience, when I do it on my own, I have a
hard time staying focused as my brain chatters away. When guided by a
practitioner, in person, I usually end up crying like a baby, because I have
so much held in, Its a huge release. Id say, for me, its easier to focus and
stay with the meditation when someone is guiding you.

Good Luck! I hope this wasnt more than you wanted to know!

Trisha
--
Beautify your home or give a wonderful gift... www.designergiftshop.com
Post by ajna
Hi,
I read this thread about mantras. I don't have much experience or
knowledge on this and few questions rised in my mind.
What's the difference between chanting mantra loud making sound, and
not making sound?
What's the difference between mantra that guru gives in initiation and
a "mantra" that you choose yourself some other way?
-ajna
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