Discussion:
TM Yoga is Isolation and mental activity cessation
(too old to reply)
w***@yahoo.com
2004-12-15 01:39:44 UTC
Permalink
According to the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali: "Let there be soundless
repetition of [the pranava] and meditation thereon." - Book One V. 28.

"There is really only one Yoga", wrote Jean Varienne, "and it is
concerned with mental activity." As the Sutra states: 'yogash
chittavritti nirodha' which means 'Yoga is mental activity cessation'
(Book One V. 2). Charles Johnston translatation: Spiritual conciousness
is gained through the versatile psychic nature.

Purport:

The idea being conveyed is that the mind consists of an uninterrupted
succession of thoughts all linked to one another like the circle of
fire traced in the air by Sri Nata-raja. Acording to Maharishi
Patanjali, the mind can never be at rest belonging as it does to the
world of existence, and is thus a permanent dynamism, multiplying and
diversifying its activity to infinity.

According to Varienne, writing in his great book entitled 'Yoga' "It
goes without saying that this mental agitation is in the highest degree
distracting; the din it sets up within us is such in fact as to even
prevent us from hearing the voice of intelligence, with the result that
we are swept along, as if we were in an eddying flood, and not just
without resistence, but even with pleasure, and with active compliance
on out part. By acting in a given way at a given moment, I bend the
future fate of this being I call 'me,' however slightly, in a direction
I am not yet aware of, because at the moment I perform that action my
being is one with the cosmic value of the forces involved in that
action" (88).

Works cited:

'Yoga Sutras of Patanjali
Translated by Charles Johnston

'Yoga'
by Jean Varienne
sperino@austin.rr.com
2004-12-15 22:42:24 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
The idea being conveyed is that the mind consists of an uninterrupted
succession of thoughts all linked to one another like the circle of
fire traced in the air by Sri Nata-raja. Acording to Maharishi
Patanjali, the mind can never be at rest belonging as it does to the
world of existence, and is thus a permanent dynamism, multiplying and
diversifying its activity to infinity.
<snip>
Willytex is obsessed with the notion that "tm" is the basis of "all
things" seen & unseen.


Willytex will never be satisfied with the *fact* that "tm" is nothing
more than a *rudimentary form of mental training*.


When the mind jumps about from moment to moment simply redirecting its
'on-task focus' is mental training.


By utilizing mental repeatiiton of any "meaningless sound mantra" as a
means to redirect the mind's focus to stay "one-pointed" is nothing
new or revolutionary.


It gets really *crazy obsessive* with willytex because he *Believes*
this mental training of "tm" leads him to some 'quiet-tude' of mind,
and this -- is the experience of some "absolute being" ..which is just
plain nonsense.


As this "quiet-tude of mind" is just one *small fraction* of the
subconscious mind, which is the *Absolute Limit and Extent* that "tm"
can lead the mind.., anyones mind including Shemp's & Judy's.


To give you an example of what i am talking about, with regards to
the-- *Absolute Limit and Extent* that "tm" can lead the mind..
Take the example of your own eyeball....your eyeball can see everything
in its view with the execption of itself.


Just like your eyeball can never see itself..neither can your mind
experience itself.


When willyex claims-- the experience of "nothingness"(or "being") by
the mind itself, can be the basis of the mind itself- is completely
insane!


If there were "nothingness / being" that he experienced, how would
willytex knew, he was actually having the experience of "nothingness"
when it occured?


Same with the insanity of the "tm teaching"!! ..
For "tm-ers" to say-, "the mind experiences finer levels of
itself..until it experiences the nothingness that underlies its
existance" .. is nonsense, as my point still applies and that is~~If
there were "nothing / being" that was experienced, how would 'tm-ers"
knew that they actually had the experience of "nothing" when it
occured?


The tm-ers" will try to argue that-, "they remember the experience of
"nothing /being" when they came out of mediatition". This argument
still does not hold up!--


As.., if the "tm-ers" did in fact recall this experience of
"nothingness"... then at the time of the 'experience of nothingness'
part of the conscious mind remained for the indelible impression/memory
to be retained. Otherwise there would be *No Memory* of the "experience
of nothingness"...nor would there any expierence of anything..

As how can a mind comphrend *Absolute Nothingness*?.. it can't period.
And
remember the eyeball can never see itself.
w***@yahoo.com
2004-12-16 06:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
Willytex is obsessed with the notion that "tm" is the basis
of "all things" seen & unseen.
There's no such thing as "tm" - you made that up. Maybe you are
obssesed with Willytex, your basis for all things seen & unseen.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
Willytex will never be satisfied with the *fact* that "tm" is
You haven't even defined what you think "tm" is in the first place. On
numerous occasions I have stated that meditation is simply "thinking
things over'. What do you think it is?
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
nothing more than a *rudimentary form of mental training*.
TM is based on thinking, pure and simple and it's a purely mechanical
technique.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
When the mind jumps about from moment to moment simply
redirecting its 'on-task focus' is mental training.
TM practice has nothing to do with redirecting an 'on-task focus' - you
made that up too.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
By utilizing mental repeatiiton of any "meaningless sound
mantra"
One of the first teachers to articulate this practice was Chaitanya
Bharati. According to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu there is no higher practice
than to meditate on the name of the Lord. Chaitanya encouraged everyone
to meditate using the Mahamantra to Lord Rama.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
as a means to redirect the mind's focus to stay
"one-pointed" is nothing new or revolutionary.
You are correct: Chaitanya lived in the fifteenth century A.D. in
Bengal.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
It gets really *crazy obsessive* with willytex because he
*Believes* this mental training of "tm" leads him to some
'quiet-tude' of mind,
TM isn't the cause of enlightenment - TM simply provides the ideal
opportunity for transcending.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
and this -- is the experience of some
"absolute being" ..which is just plain nonsense.
According to Chaitanya Bharati, the meditation on the Mahamantra can
bring a devotee to a state of Transcendental Conciousness. This was
demonstrated by Chaitanya on numerous occasions according to his
biogropher in the 'Sri Chaitanya Ras Amrita' which relates the
Transcendental activities of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. For example, at Puri
during the Jagganath Yatra in 1432, Chaitanya was seen by his
companions to be in a state of total bliss conciousness, due to his
practice of meditating and chanting the name of the Lord in the form of
the Mahamantra.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
As this "quiet-tude of mind" is just one *small fraction*
of the subconscious mind, which is the *Absolute Limit and
Extent* that "tm" can lead the mind.., anyones mind including
Shemp's & Judy's.
You are supposed to read the messages here BEFORE you make your
comments!

There's no mention of a 'subconcious' mind in the works of Sri Kapila
or Maharishi Patanjali. According to Kapila mental activity consists of
an uninterrupted succession of thoughts all linked to one another like
the circle of fire traced in the air by Sri Nata-raja. Acording to
Maharishi Patanjali, the mind can never be at rest belonging as it does
to the world of existence, and is thus a permanent dynamism,
multiplying and diversifying its activity to infinity.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
To give you an example of what i am talking about, with regards
to the-- *Absolute Limit and Extent* that "tm" can lead the mind.
Take the example of your own eyeball....your eyeball can see
everything in its view with the execption of itself.
Just like your eyeball can never see itself..neither can your
mind experience itself.
You are mistaken: Niether the sage Kapila nor Patanjali supported the
notion that was a 'subconcious' in the sense that you use that term.
The 'mind' in fact, is part and parcel of the three constituents born
of nature and it's 32 evolutes, the tatwas, that make up prakriti.
Kapila, Shakya, Patanjali, Shankara, Chaitanya, Madhva, Ramanuja, and
Vallabha all agree on this.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
When willyex claims-- the experience of "nothingness" (or "being")
by the mind itself, can be the basis of the mind itself- is
completely insane!
Big mistake! The Absolute Being is not the same as 'nothingness-being'.
Absolute Being is transcendental to ordinary mental experiences and the
Transcendental Absolute is not an object of knowledge. This is all
explained to our understanding in the Adi Shankaracharya's commentary
on Brahma Sutras of Badarayana. All the Upanishadic thinkers agreed
that there was a Transcendental Sky which is beyond all thinking and
imagination.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
If there were "nothingness / being" that he experienced, how
would willytex knew, he was actually having the experience of
"nothingness" when it occured?
There is no 'nothingness / being' entity - you made that up too.

There is only prakriti, composed of the three constituents and the 32
tatwas, and the purusha, the Transcendental Person. The experience can
be summed up in the words of the Adi Shankaracharya - 'Tat vam asi' -
the world of change is an illusion; it is not real, yet not unreal; and
the Transcendental Absolute is the only Reality.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
Same with the insanity of the "tm teaching"!!
There's no such thing as a 'tm teaching' either!!
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
For "tm-ers" to say-,
All the Upanishadic teachers were Transcendentalists.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
"the mind experiences finer levels of itself..until it
experiences the nothingness that underlies its existance"
You have not described TM as taught by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
.. is nonsense, as my point still applies and that
is~~If there were "nothing / being" that was experienced, how would
'tm-ers" knew that they actually had the experience of "nothing"
when it occured?
Again, there is no such entity as 'nothingness / being', your term.
First of all, that would be a contradiction in terms: an entity can't
'be', and at the same time 'not be'. According to Sri Kapila and the
Sage Patanjali, there are three gunas, born of nature, and 32
additional extenuators.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
The tm-ers" will try to argue that-, "they remember the experience
of "nothing /being" when they came out of mediatition". This
argument still does not hold up!--
I don't recall any 'tmers' saying that they remember an experience of
'nothingness / being'. Which one?
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
As.., if the "tm-ers" did in fact recall this experience
of "nothingness"... then at the time of the 'experience of
nothingness' part of the conscious mind remained for the
indelible impression/memory to be retained.
Non skeeter.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
Otherwise there would be *No Memory* of the "experience
of nothingness"...nor would there any expierence of anything.
Another non-skeeter.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
As how can a mind comphrend *Absolute Nothingness*?
Oops! You made a big mistake: you called 'Nothingness' the 'Absolute'.
Before you used the term 'nothingness / being'. What's up with that?
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
it can't period.
You are a case in point!

So, we are agreed - the human intellect doesn't have the capacity to
understand the Transcendental Absolute.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
And remember the eyeball can never see itself.
Also, don't confuse the pointing finger for the moon itself.
sperino@austin.rr.com
2004-12-16 18:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
Willytex is obsessed with the notion that "tm" is the basis
of "all things" seen & unseen.
There's no such thing as "tm" - you made that up.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..you say-, "tm-you made that up.

You complusive *LIAR*!..your pal Lil MishMashi Mahesh made "tm" up.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
You haven't even defined what you think "tm" is in the first place.
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. "tm"= Mental repeatition of meaningless sound
mantras..simple enough..everyone knows- "tm" is nothing more than a
*rudimentary form of mental training*.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
TM is based on thinking, pure and simple and it's a purely mechanical
technique.
-Yo "texis" wassup?.. thats what i said, -"tm" is nothing more than a
form of mental training, or a "mechanical techinque".


Willytex will never be satisfied with the *fact* that "tm" is just a
rudimentary form of mental training.

Simply put-when the mind jumps about from moment to moment simply
redirecting its 'on-task focus' is mental training.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
TM practice has nothing to do with redirecting an
'on-task focus' - you
made that up too.
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. the mental training of "tm" involves-,
"effortlessly thinking the mantra, and when we notice we are engaged in
thoughts during meditation, we effortlessly come back (mentally) to
repeating the mantra."

By utilizing mental repeatiiton of any "meaningless sound
mantra" you engage in *mental training*.
Hence Lil MishMashi MaAhesh makes the spurious claims that-,
"tm produces mental clarity and sharper focus of the mind.

However, "tm" gets really *crazy obsessive* with willytex because he
believes this mental training of "tm" leads him to some 'quiet-tude'
of mind, and this -- is the experience of some "transcendental
absolute being".
Which is just plain nonsense.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
TM isn't the cause of enlightenment - TM simply provides the ideal
opportunity for transcending.
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. define this word "transcending" as it relates to
"tm"?
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Chaitanya was seen by his
companions to be in a state of total bliss conciousness,
due to his practice of meditating and chanting the name of
the Lord in the form of the Mahamantra.
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. Lord Sri Chaitanya *only* recommended chanting
aloud the "Hare Ram mantra" in NamSanKirtan style.

As this "quiet-tude of mind or "transcendental absolute being" is just
one *small fraction* of the subconscious mind, which is the *absolute
limit and extent* that "tm" can lead the mind..
Anyones mind including (but not limited to):
Willtex's & Shemp's & Judy's & Lawson & Stephen Anderson's.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
You are supposed to read the messages here BEFORE
you make your
comments!
-Yo "texie" wassup?..i have read the "message"..
What has the chanting the Hare Ram mantra in the NamSanKirtan style of
Lord Sri Chaitanya have do with "tm"??
Post by w***@yahoo.com
There's no mention of a 'subconcious' mind in the works of Sri Kapila
or Maharishi Patanjali.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..what was that *spurious claim*?.. i have over
4,000 websites that refute your habit of - *Complusive Lying*..,

see www.google.com search for
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=patanjali&as_q=subconscious+mind
Results 1 - 10 of about 4,560 for patanjali subconscious mind. (0.17
seconds
Post by w***@yahoo.com
According to Kapila mental activity consists of
an uninterrupted succession of thoughts all
linked to one another like
the circle of fire traced in the air by Sri Nata-raja.
-Yo "texie" try sticking to the facts.
To give you an example of what i am talking about, with regards
to the-*absolute lLimit and extent* that "tm" can lead the mind.
Take the example of your own eyeball....your eyeball can see
everything in its view with the execption of itself.

Just like your eyeball can never see itself..neither can your
mind experience itself.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
You are mistaken: Niether the sage Kapila nor Patanjali supported the
notion that was a 'subconcious'
-Yo "texie" wassup?..stop your complusive lying!!
see www.google.com search for
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=patanjali&as_q=subconscious+mind
Results 1 - 10 of about 4,560 for patanjali subconscious mind. (0.17
seconds

When willyex claims-- the experience of "nothingness"(or "being")or
some "transcendental absolute being" by the mind itself, can be the
basis of the mind itself- is completely insane!
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Big mistake!
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. you are a complusive liar!..why should we
believe any of your spurious claims?

If there were "nothingness / being / transcendental absolute being"
that he experienced, how would willytex knew, he was actually having
the experience of -"transcendental absolute being/nothingness" when it
occured?
Same with the insanity of the "tm teaching"!!
For "tm-ers" to say-,
"the mind experiences finer levels of itself..until it
experiences the ""transcendental absolute being" / nothingness that
underlies its existance" ..is nonsense, as my point still applies and
that
is~~If there were "transcendental absolute being / nothingness " that
was experienced, how would 'tm-ers" knew that they actually had the
experience of "transcendental absolute being / nothingness " when it
occured?
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Again, there is no such entity as 'nothingness / being', your term.
First of all, that would be a contradiction in terms: an entity can't
'be', and at the same time 'not be'.
According to Sri Kapila and the
Sage Patanjali, there are three gunas, born of nature, and 32
additional extenuators.
-Yo "texie" wassup?...what has the "three gunas" to do with your
spurious claims of a
- "transcendental absolute being" experienced during "tm".

As, willytex and the "tm-ers" will try to argue that-, "they remember
the experience of "nothingness /"transcendental absolute being" " when
they came out of mediatition". This argument still does not hold up!--

You see when you have this experience of a "transcendental absolute
being" / nothingness.. then there is a *conscious mind* that is present
to entertain this "transcending".

You *have not* transcended *any* level of the mind. As the *conscious
mind* still remians!!

As.., if the "tm-ers" did in fact recall this experience
of "nothingness" / "transcendental absolute being" ..yhen at the time
of the 'experience of nothingness' part of the conscious mind remained
for the indelible impression/memory to be retained.

Otherwise there would be *No Memory* of the "experience
of "transcendental absolute being" / nothingness"...nor would there any
expierence of anything.

As how can a mind comphrend- "transcendental absolute being" /Absolute
Nothingness*?
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Oops! You made a big mistake: you called
'Nothingness' the 'Absolute'.
Before you used the term 'nothingness / being'.
What's up with that?
-Yo "texie" wassup? .. you can call "transcendental absolute being"
anything you please as, no one has ever succeeded in what Lil MishMashi
Mahesh describes as-, "transcending thoughts to arrive at a
transcendental absolute being"
It can't period.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
So, we are agreed - the human intellect doesn't have the capacity to
understand the Transcendental Absolute.
-And neither do you!!

And remember the eyeball can never see itself.
w***@yahoo.com
2004-12-17 14:36:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
your pal Lil MishMashi Mahesh made "tm" up.
Mr. Perino - Never heard of a guy named "MishMashi". The term "tm" has
never been used by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, so far as I know. That's
just a term used by some meditators to facilitate communication. In
Sanskrit the term is Dhyana and the proceess is called Raja Yoga.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
"tm"= Mental repeatition of meaningless sound
mantras..simple enough..everyone knows- "tm"
is nothing more than a *rudimentary form of
mental training*.
Sorry, you haven't defined what TM practice is. There's no
"repeatition" involved in TM.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
tm" is nothing more than a form of mental training,
There's no "training" involved; TM is based on the natural tendency of
the mind to go to a field of greater happiness.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
or a "mechanical techinque".
All thinking is mental and mechanical - you haven't addded anything to
your definition.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
the mental training of "tm" involves-, "effortlessly
thinking the mantra, and when we notice we are engaged in
thoughts during meditation, we effortlessly come back
(mentally) to repeating the mantra."
In TM the mantra is appreciated just like any other thought. It takes
effort to "think", so your definition falls short.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
By utilizing mental repeatiiton of any "meaningless sound
mantra" you engage in *mental training*.
No, not any "meaningless sound mantra" - it should be a mantra with a
special quality called a bija or seed syllable which is derievd from
the Vedic rishis and passed on to the sadhak via an initiation or
diksha. This is common knowledge all over Bharat, Prabhu.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
"tm produces mental clarity and sharper focus of the mind.
Any thinking can produce mental clarity and a sharper focus of the
mind.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
define this word "transcending" as it relates to "tm"?
According to the Upanishads there is a Transcendetal Field which is
beyond the waking, dreaming, and sleep state. This doctrine is
elucidated by Sri Gaudapadacharya in his vartik on Mandukhya Upanishad,
which in turn recieved a full commentary from the Adi Shankaracharya.
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
...Lord Sri Chaitanya *only* recommended chanting
aloud the "Hare Ram mantra" in NamSanKirtan style.
Namsankirtan is a form of meditation, but on a grosser level than
silent meditation. Chaitanya reccommended any activity that providesd
the opportunity for transcending: meditation on the name of the Lord;
chanting the name of the Lord; worshiping the transcendental form of
the Lord; or performing simple devotional service to the Lord. All
these practices are a form of meditation.

<snip>
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
What has the chanting the Hare Ram mantra in the NamSanKirtan
style of Lord Sri Chaitanya have do with "tm"??
To repeat: Chanting the name of the Lord is just a grosser form of
meditating on the name of the Lord. Both can provide an opportunty for
transcending to the Spiritual Sky.

<snip>
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
...what has the "three gunas" to do with your spurious
claims of a "transcendental absolute being" experienced
during "tm".
In a nutshell, according to the Vedic literature, prakriti is composed
of three constituents called gunas which produce in turn 32 additional
evolutes called tatwas. Completely separate is the Purusha, the
Transcendental Person. Aspirants must go beyond, that is, transcend
through yogic practice the prakriti and isolate the Purusha.

The gunas and their evolutes are the basis of all action in the world,
without exception. All the Upanishadic thinkers accept the Sankhya
doctrine of the gunas born of nature enunciated by Lord Kapila in the
Sankhya Sutras. Patanjali composed the Yoga Sutras which accept the
doctrine proposed by Kapila but add an additional category, a special
kind of God of Yogins, the Ishvara.

<snip>

This is all explained to our understanding by the Adi Shankaracharya in
his vartika on Vyasa's commentary on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. It has
also been explained by Sanatan Goswami in his biography the "Sri
Chaitanyarasamrita" which details the transcendenatl experiences of
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
sperino@austin.rr.com
2004-12-19 20:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
your pal Lil MishMashi Mahesh made "tm" up.
Mr. Perino - Never heard of a guy named "MishMashi".
The term "tm" has
never been used by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi,
so far as I know. That's
just a term used by some meditators
to facilitate communication.
In
Sanskrit the term is Dhyana and
the proceess is called Raja Yoga.
:> > "tm"= Mental repeatition of meaningless sound
:> > mantras..simple enough..everyone knows- "tm"
:> > is nothing more than a *rudimentary form of
:> > mental training*.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Sorry, you haven't defined what TM practice is.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..i did define "tm"..
as a rudimentary form of mental training.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
There's no
"repeatition" involved in TM.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..."no repeatition in tm?" ...How do
you begin "tm" without mentally repeating the mantra?"


:> > tm" is nothing more than a form of mental training,
Post by w***@yahoo.com
There's no "training" involved; TM is based
on the natural tendency of
the mind to go to a field of greater happiness.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..you claim-, "the natural tendency of
the mind to go to a field of greater happiness..."

Then why have moer than 99.75% of the people
who have started "tm" then quit?
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Post by ***@austin.rr.com
or a "mechanical techinque".
All thinking is mental and mechanical -
you haven't addded anything to
your definition.
:> > the mental training of "tm" involves-, "effortlessly
:> > thinking the mantra, and when we notice we are engaged in
:> > thoughts during meditation, we effortlessly come back
:> > (mentally) to repeating the mantra."
Post by w***@yahoo.com
In TM the mantra is appreciated just like any other thought.
It takes
effort to "think",
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. "appreciated just like any other thought"..
all mental activity requires some degree of effort. How can you say-
"the mantra is appreciated just like any other thought"..
Without on-task mental focus?..
You have to pay attention and exert some degree of effort
to "appreciate" anything.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
so your definition falls short.
-Yo "texie" wassup? ..and you definiton makes no sense.


:> > By utilizing mental repeatiiton of any
:> > "meaningless sound
:> > mantra" you engage in *mental training*.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
No, not any "meaningless sound mantra" -
it should be a mantra with a
special quality called a bija or
seed syllable which is derievd from
the Vedic rishis and passed on to the sadhak
via an initiation or
diksha.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..your definition qualifies "tm" as religion.
Although you cannot offer any proof of your spurious claims.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
This is common knowledge all over Bharat, Prabhu.
:> > define this word "transcending" as it relates to "tm"?
Post by w***@yahoo.com
According to the Upanishads there is a Transcendetal
Field which is
beyond the waking, dreaming, and sleep state.
-Yo "texie" wassup?.. this "fourth state" or turiya is discussed.
However no one said it was related to
-"mental repeatition of meaningless sound mantras aka tm".
Post by w***@yahoo.com
This doctrine is
elucidated by Sri Gaudapadacharya in his vartik
on Mandukhya Upanishad,
which in turn recieved a full commentary from
the Adi Shankaracharya.
:> > ...Lord Sri Chaitanya *only* recommended chanting
:> > aloud the "Hare Ram mantra" in NamSanKirtan style.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Namsankirtan is a form of meditation,
but on a grosser level than
silent meditation.
Chaitanya reccommended any activity that providesd
the opportunity for transcending: meditation on the name
of the Lord;
chanting the name of the Lord;
worshiping the transcendental form of
the Lord; or performing simple devotional service
to the Lord. All
these practices are a form of meditation.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..i have read the "message"..
What has the chanting the Hare Ram mantra in the NamSanKirtan style of
Lord Sri Chaitanya have do with "tm"??
Post by w***@yahoo.com
There's no mention of a 'subconcious' mind in the works of Sri Kapila
or Maharishi Patanjali.
-Yo "texie" wassup?..what was that *spurious claim*?.. i have over
4,000 websites that refute your habit of - *Complusive Lying*..,

see www.google.com search for
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=patanjali&as_q=subconscious+mind
Results 1 - 10 of about 4,560 for patanjali subconscious mind. (0.17
seconds
Post by w***@yahoo.com
According to Kapila mental activity consists of
an uninterrupted succession of thoughts all
linked to one another like
the circle of fire traced in the air by Sri Nata-raja.
-Yo "texie" try sticking to the facts.
To give you an example of what i am talking about, with regards
to the-*absolute lLimit and extent* that "tm" can lead the mind.
Take the example of your own eyeball....your eyeball can see
everything in its view with the execption of itself.

Just like your eyeball can never see itself..neither can your
mind experience itself.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
You are mistaken: Niether the sage Kapila nor Patanjali supported the
notion that was a 'subconcious'
-Yo "texie" wassup?..stop your complusive lying!!
see www.google.com search for
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=patanjali&as_q=subconscious+mind
Results 1 - 10 of about 4,560 for patanjali subconscious mind. (0.17
seconds

When willyex claims-- the experience of "nothingness"(or "being")or
some "transcendental absolute being" by the mind itself, can be the
basis of the mind itself- is completely insane!
w***@yahoo.com
2004-12-19 22:12:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Sorry, you haven't defined what TM practice is.
...i did define "tm"..as a rudimentary form of mental training.
Mr. Perino - You've just described mind control, not TM.

There's no 'mental training' in TM practice. The Transcendental Person,
Purusha, is already present - all you need to do is 'isolate' the
Prakriti. The ideal technique to accomplish this is the Raja Yoga of
Maharishi Patanjali. Meditation simply provides the ideal opportunity
for transcending.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
There's no "repeatition" involved in TM.
How do you begin "tm" without mentally repeating the mantra?"
There's no 'repeatition' involved in TM practice - that's called
'japa', a gross form of mind control practiced by beginners.

In TM you experience the mantra just like any other thought,
effortlessly.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
TM is based on the natural tendency of
the mind to go to a field of greater happiness.
Then why have moer than 99.75% of the people
who have started "tm" then quit?
Probably because most people simply don't have time to meditate, attend
satsang, or to particpate in sankirtan to chant the Mahamantra.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
all mental activity requires some degree of effort.
TM practice is involved with 'mental activity cessation' - I already
told you that, can't you read? It's just like the Maharishi Patanjali
said in his Yoga Sutras - 'Yoga is mental activity cessation'.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
How can you say-"the mantra is appreciated just
like any other thought" Without on-task mental focus?
Because that would be called 'concentration' - that's what you do when
you have a task at hand to accomplish.

The Purusha or Transcendenatl Person is already present everywhere, so
there's no mental focus involved. According to Maharishi Patanjali the
purpose of Yoga is to avoid mental-tasking.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
You have to pay attention and exert some degree of effort
to "appreciate" anything.
That only applies in the mundane world of the Prakriti. In the
Transcendenatl Sky there is no need for effort of any kind - everything
is as it is, just pure Being.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Although you cannot offer any proof of your spurious claims.
I already quoted at least four scriptural sources.

Let's review:

1. Maharishi Patanjali in 'Yoga Sutras'
2. Sage Kapila in 'Sankhya Sutras'
3. Adi Shankaracharya in 'Brahma Sutra Bhyasa'
4. Chatianya Bharati in 'Bhaktirasamritasindhu' by Rupa Goswami.

Adi Shankaracharya mentions at least two TM bija mantras in his ode to
Tripurasundari, the 'Sound Arya Lahari'.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
define this word "transcending" as it relates to "tm"?
There is a fourth state of conciousness, beyond waking, dreaming, and
sleeping.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
...this "fourth state" or turiya is discussed. However no one
said it was related to "mental repeatition of meaningless sound
mantras aka tm".
The term 'turiya' used by Gaudapadacharya refers to the Transcendental
State, the 'Fourth'. A transcendental state of pure awareness, Pure
Being, Purusha, the Transcendental Person, completley separate from the
Prakriti.

TM, in a nutshell, was elucidated by Sri Gaudapadacharya in his vartik
on Mandukhya Upanishad, which in turn recieved a full commentary from
the Adi Shankaracharya.
Post by w***@yahoo.com
Namsankirtan is a form of meditation, but on a grosser level
than silent meditation. Chaitanya reccommended any activity
that providesd the opportunity for transcending: meditation on
the name of the Lord; chanting the name of the Lord; worshiping
the transcendental form of the Lord; or performing simple devotional
service to the Lord. All these practices are a form of meditation.
What has the chanting the Hare Ram mantra in the
NamSanKirtan style of Lord Sri Chaitanya have do
with "tm"?
For those in a disposition to chant the name of the Lord, they may also
aspire to learn how to meditate on the Lord's name as well. Through
more subtle forms of meditation they can provide a more ideal
opportunity to transcend.

<snip>

Your claims have all been found to be misleading and have been
discredited, therefore you have been shown to be seriously uninformed
and in error.

In fact, there are numerous instances in the Vedic literature that can
be cited to indicate that all the Upanishadic teachers practiced a
meditation that is transcendental. In Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna says
"Meditate on Me."

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